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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Jun-22-18, 22:42
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Default Is MSG going to ruin my low-carb diet?

Is MSG going to ruin my low-carb diet, by maybe causing me to overeat?

And is it safe?

I just want real truth, no hearsay and hysteria.

(If you think artificial sweeteners are worse than sugar, please don't respond to this thread.) .
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jun-22-18, 23:36
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
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Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
Is MSG going to ruin my low-carb diet, by maybe causing me to overeat?
You answered your own question here. If you can control the portions, there's no problem. If it causes you to overeat, there's a problem.

Umami Basics

Take a look at naturally occurring glutamates in foods from around the world.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jun-22-18, 23:56
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
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Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Right, but is there any scientific evidence that shows that umami causes people to overeat?
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Jun-23-18, 00:25
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/219/153 Female 5'8"
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I always overeat when we do Chinese takeout....no control at all. Is it the delicousness or the MSG? or both?

A cent reading credited MSG as adding, potentially, too much sodium to the diet..and that spells water retention.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jun-23-18, 05:53
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teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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There are some mouse studies where msg is added to their drinking water. The mice do eat more food, so the increased appetite is there even when the msg isn't added directly to the food--but they also have an increased metabolic rate, it doesn't make them fat.

If I would eat rice, I would eat more umami rice than plain white rice. I mostly eat eggs, meat, heavy cream and butter, I do well with these but if I used any of it to enhance the flavour of rice, I think I'd get in trouble.

The chinese buffet effect is sort of confounded by the variety of foods available, even msg-free, variety tends to increase food intake. That "super satiating" effect of plain potatoes that science has supposedly revealed doesn't work so good if you're offered pizza or even just a juicy pork chop after being "sated" on potatoes.

People hardly ever add just msg to something, usually you have that combo of carbs and fats to deal with as well. Studies that look at msg and appetite in humans seem to be centred on single meal effects, a bowl of msg broth, are you hungry a half hour later? I find these pointless, because the first time you're introduced to a food, in a particular environment etc., that affects your dopamine etc. response vs. once you're used to the conditions.

A pubmed search gives a lot of mixed stuff, several studies where msg-laced broth supposedly decreases appetite, or increases appetite but also increases satiety, etc. also studies looking at purported health benefits.

With artificial sweeteners--once I made some almond butter, added some sweetener and cinnamon. Tasted like cookie dough. I froze it to make it harder to eat, that made it worse, yummy frozen cookie dough. But I've done just fine while swilling large amounts of diet pop, or artificial sweetener in my coffee. I try not to have a sweetened beverage with a meal.

The only thing I eat right now that has ingredients is heavy cream. So I'm saving all my paranoia for carageenan.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jun-23-18, 09:09
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
There are some mouse studies where msg is added to their drinking water. The mice do eat more food, so the increased appetite is there even when the msg isn't added directly to the food--but they also have an increased metabolic rate, it doesn't make them fat.

If I would eat rice, I would eat more umami rice than plain white rice. I mostly eat eggs, meat, heavy cream and butter, I do well with these but if I used any of it to enhance the flavour of rice, I think I'd get in trouble.

The chinese buffet effect is sort of confounded by the variety of foods available, even msg-free, variety tends to increase food intake. That "super satiating" effect of plain potatoes that science has supposedly revealed doesn't work so good if you're offered pizza or even just a juicy pork chop after being "sated" on potatoes.

People hardly ever add just msg to something, usually you have that combo of carbs and fats to deal with as well. Studies that look at msg and appetite in humans seem to be centred on single meal effects, a bowl of msg broth, are you hungry a half hour later? I find these pointless, because the first time you're introduced to a food, in a particular environment etc., that affects your dopamine etc. response vs. once you're used to the conditions.

A pubmed search gives a lot of mixed stuff, several studies where msg-laced broth supposedly decreases appetite, or increases appetite but also increases satiety, etc. also studies looking at purported health benefits.

With artificial sweeteners--once I made some almond butter, added some sweetener and cinnamon. Tasted like cookie dough. I froze it to make it harder to eat, that made it worse, yummy frozen cookie dough. But I've done just fine while swilling large amounts of diet pop, or artificial sweetener in my coffee. I try not to have a sweetened beverage with a meal.

The only thing I eat right now that has ingredients is heavy cream. So I'm saving all my paranoia for carageenan.


Thanks, I've added Too Much Variety to my list of obesity cause theories:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...78&postcount=48

Geez, do I have to worry about carageenan now too? I think I'm going to go insane.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jun-23-18, 21:32
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mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
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Plan: PSMF/IF
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Default

Watch, carrageenan is popping up in some store brands of Half 'n Half. Solved the issue by just adding CO to my black coffee :-)

Yes, I believe cream with carrageenan gum is worse than Half 'n half LOL
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jun-24-18, 05:11
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Kristine Kristine is offline
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Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
Right, but is there any scientific evidence that shows that umami causes people to overeat?
Well, your original question was, "Is MSG going to ruin my low-carb diet?" This is highly subjective, so it doesn't really matter what studies show. I'm sure there are plenty with all kinds of results (google is your friend. )

It should be self-evident that people will eat more of something if it tastes really good. I can give you a laundry list of foods that I'd have to choke down if they didn't have sweetness, salt, and/or savory-ness added to it. So it's really something you have to figure out with individual foods. I just used this example in another recent thread, but mine would be pork rinds.

For well over a decade, the only pork rinds available near me had the ingredients of pork skin, lard, salt, and nothing else. I'd never finish more than a third of a bag at a time. I just wanted them to dip in salsa and sour cream, or what not. More recently, I discovered a new brand that was seasoned with garlic powder. I finished the whole bag in one shot. I read the ingredients - MSG added. I still buy these, but I'm conscientious to not just pop open the bag when I'm hungry. I'll limit my portion and have them with guacamole or something.

Last edited by Kristine : Sun, Jun-24-18 at 05:18.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Jun-24-18, 06:28
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Default

I watched my friend's cottage over the winter one year. Ran out of salt so while I was there, I borrowed their shaker. Took a little while to realize what I borrowed was a shaker of msg. At least part of the explanation for why everybody loves his cooking so much.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jun-24-18, 07:22
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine
Well, your original question was, "Is MSG going to ruin my low-carb diet?" This is highly subjective, so it doesn't really matter what studies show. I'm sure there are plenty with all kinds of results (google is your friend. )


It's important to understand that scientific studies are generally studies of groups of people and the results may apply to most people in the group but not all of them. Think of the Bell Curve with the average or norm in the center and fewer people in each tail. Even when the results are distributed like this, usually indicating very strong results, there are still people in the tails, people for whom the results don't apply. In other words, as Kristine says, you have to figure it out for yourself, asking yourself are you one of those people for whom the results apply or are you one of those outliers? Your n=1 is more important for you than any result from a scientific study whose results characterize the group not each and every individual within the group.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jun-24-18, 07:36
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
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Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I watched my friend's cottage over the winter one year. Ran out of salt so while I was there, I borrowed their shaker. Took a little while to realize what I borrowed was a shaker of msg. At least part of the explanation for why everybody loves his cooking so much.



You were born in the 70s if your mom used this:
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Jun-24-18, 10:41
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristine


You were born in the 70s if your mom used this:


OMG, I was born in the 1970s and my mom used that!
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Jun-24-18, 12:24
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
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Default

My mother always said that if it tenderizes your meat it's tenderizing your gut!
She wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole.....
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jun-25-18, 06:13
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Susky2 Susky2 is offline
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Plan: Keto-ish
Stats: 339/294/245 Male 76 inches
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I have some of that now, and I used it for last night's dinner. My use isn't frequent, nor does it require a lot of it. But it does impact the flavor, and unless I see something really negative happening, I don't plan on dropping it.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jun-27-18, 07:35
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Robin120 Robin120 is offline
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Plan: low carb
Stats: 171/125/145 Female 5'9
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[QUOTE=BillyHW

(If you think artificial sweeteners are worse than sugar, please don't respond to this thread.) . [/QUOTE]



If I make Chinese dishes i find portion control not to be an issue.... When I get Chinese.....
Is it the msg or that a restaurant uses a lot more oil and salt than I do (and I'm a salt lover!).
At the end of the day, if I overeat Chinese once every week or two, does it impact me? Not so all.....it balances out.
I'm guessing you don't add msg to your cooking, you mean in Chinese takeout or whatever- I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. You are already making tons of changes.
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