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  #61   ^
Old Fri, Jun-22-18, 18:08
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 8,211
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/219/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 30%
Location: Massachusetts
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  #62   ^
Old Sat, Jun-23-18, 07:17
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Reading Dr. Valter Longo's The Longevity Diet (2016). Starts out good, with his background and how he got into his field. Interestingly, he states right up front that this is not a lose weight diet book - but like the title states, it's about longevity. It used to bother me when I heard something contrary to what I was doing - now it fascinates me, the different goals, motivations, toward different outcomes (treating disease, losing weight, etc.). Since his goal is living longer, he details what high protein can do that goes against this:

High protein intake, as I have explained, causes the activation of the growth hormone receptor, growth factor 1 (IGF-1), whose altered concentrations are associated with diabetes and cancer, respectively. Proteins and certain amino acids derived from them, including leucine, can activate TOR-S6K, a set of genes that accelerate aging. Another gene that appears to play a key role in aging is PKA, which we have shown in both simple organisms and mice to be activated by sugars. Mice with reduced PKA activity live longer and are protected against age-related disease.

Even Dr. Dale Bredesen says in The End of Alzheimer's (2017), which is also not a diet lose weight book (as the title is self-explanitory), that meat should be a condiment side dish during a meal.

He states up front that he is not making any money from this book, or his fasting-mimicking diet, which is NOT in the book. You have to go to a site and it's may be a subscription service kind of thing. He does not get anything from those sales either - only expenses.
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  #63   ^
Old Mon, Jun-25-18, 09:23
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
Reading Dr. Valter Longo's The Longevity Diet (2016).
I'm on page 110, not quite half way, and I'm still turning pages. So far he has stuck to his subject - prolonging life, so comments on processes and diets are from that context, do they prolong life or promote aging? Some notes I took:

1. LC - increases mortality, decreases lifespan - against the goal of this book.

2. Proteins - along with sugar, promotes aging. Those 65 and younger should not eat high proteins - keep it low: .31 - .36g per lb of body weight. Those 66 and older will need higher protein than this.

3. One of the protein graphs on page 71 is mislabeled / backwards! (and cancer is misspelled).



4. On Intermittent Fasting.

A label that is now widely used by the media is "Intermittent Fasting." I believe this represents a problematic direction because, like the "Mediterranean Diet" or "eating in moderation" it allows people to improvise and pick and choose periods of fasting that range from 12 hours to weeks, giving the impression that just because they all involve some period of "abstention from food" they are similar or equivalent and all provide health benefits. In fact, they have very different effects. For example, if we consider fasting as the period necessary to switch from a primarily sugar-burning mode to a fat-burning mode, then only periods of abstention from food lasting two or three days or more can be considered fasting. The length of fasting appears to be necessary to trigger the activation of "regenerative" programs. This does not mean that shorter periods of abstention from food cannot be beneficial, but that we should not use words like "intermittent Fasting" to include intervention that are very different and have very different effects just like we don't want to place in the same category walking for fifteen minutes and running a marathon.

5. Supplements. He does not think that the benefits of supplementing vitamins separately, that may be deficient, have been proven safe in the long run, and says a multi-vitamin should cover most of the deficiencies - and even that should be taken 3 times a week.

I'm going to finish this because I'm interested in autophagy and stem cell regeneration (I'm probably saying it wrong) and want to learn about these processes and the protective benefits from fasting (intermittent or not).
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  #64   ^
Old Mon, Jun-25-18, 11:52
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teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 12,833
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I'm on the moderate protein rather than "more is better" side due to wanting to be in ketosis, because I seem to do better there, whether it's the ketosis or that's just the therapeutic dose of heavy cream I respond to. But all this stuff about lower protein populations doing better--meh.

Blue zone populations? There's 7 billion people on the planet. Most of them eat higher carb, lower animal fat and protein diets than in more prosperous countries. Blue zones aren't a major part of the world population, and they're not even a major fraction of the world population that's eating lower animal food, "plant-based" diets. Somebody's going to live longest, somebody's going to win the longevity lottery.

Lady lives to be 116, smoked all her life? When she was young, everybody smoked. She's just the one that lived.

There is evidence vs. protein in animals. Colin Campbells rats lived longer on low animal protein, as long as they didn't die first. It prolonged life vs. cancer, without actually extending life. Also restriction models, calorie or otherwise, generally work vs diets that cause premature death and over-consumption--restriction of a diet that wasn't going to shorten life is way less likely to "extend" life, it's a correction more than an extension.
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  #65   ^
Old Mon, Jun-25-18, 12:59
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 8,211
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/219/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Massachusetts
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One of my concerns about meat is organic vs traditional, grass-fed v. traditional. IMO only traditional is used in the studies. IMO traditionally raised meats are not a great option. Grassfed to me represents a higher % in VIt A and others, and the feed is not contaminated with any herbicides and pessticides as grass lands are managed differently than acres of grains.
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  #66   ^
Old Thu, Jun-28-18, 10:58
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
Reading Dr. Valter Longo's The Longevity Diet (2016)
Some of my comments so far on this book may seem like criticism, but Dr. Longo is one of the good guys - fighting against the decades old dogma that trundles on like a supertanker that takes forever to turn. I'm at the part where he's using his fasting-mimicking diet in human trials with patients going through chemotherapy and the successes and protection that this benefits these patients. I applaud his work, and his perseverance. Still reading...

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  #67   ^
Old Thu, Jun-28-18, 11:35
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 8,211
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/219/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 30%
Location: Massachusetts
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SIL going thru chemo. Mother done with radiation and chemo. I will NEVER have either. I am hoping for a study that is only diet based to see the real impact of food ...... some studies have shown keto diets have a positive effect on chemo treatments ( control group without keto diets.)

This is a book I would like to read.

Dr Lin's book is not LC but it could be. More in the maintenance level given the couple recipes I evaluated----still need to give it a cover to cover read. Next week.
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  #68   ^
Old Thu, Jun-28-18, 12:59
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
SIL going thru chemo. Mother done with radiation and chemo. I will NEVER have either. I am hoping for a study that is only diet based to see the real impact of food ...... some studies have shown keto diets have a positive effect on chemo treatments ( control group without keto diets.)
fasting and chemo ncbi.nlm.nih.gov search results

ketogenic and chemo ncbi.nlm.nih.gov search results
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  #69   ^
Old Thu, Jun-28-18, 17:51
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 8,211
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/219/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Massachusetts
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yes, sadly, I am only a daughter and not a doctor; sadly I am only a little sister and not a doctor-----my information falls on deaf ears.

I refuse to get cancer!!!!!!

But both studies seem to need the chemo to attack the voracious cancer cells; that even fasting provides too much sugar to the cancer cells, as the blood/ body works to keep those 2 teaspoons in the blood, which I assume keep feeding the cancer cells.

Still so so much to learn.

Thanks for the links. I need to reconsider the chemo.
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  #70   ^
Old Thu, Jun-28-18, 17:54
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 8,211
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/219/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Massachusetts
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I have been thinking about the high protein diet linked to high cancer---- my question would be what was the consumption of carbs (all kinds) because typically, those that can afford significant amounts of protein, usually animal, can also afford plenty of bread and pastries and sweets.
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  #71   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 03:47
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,318
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Possibly the association with high protein is the glutamine. Dr Seyfrieds recent papers and interviews stress that both glucose and glutamine need to be inhibited, his latest key paper on press-pulse:

https://nutritionandmetabolism.biom...2986-017-0178-2

An earlier one, working out inhibiting glutamine as a fuel. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25069036

Think it was this podcast where he discussed how they are trying to inhibit it.
https://readysetketosis.com/ffmtc

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Jun-29-18 at 04:05.
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  #72   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 05:41
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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I just looked at the wiki for glutamine, and listed second under function:

Lipid synthesis, especially by cancer cells.[7][8]
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  #73   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 06:36
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Of course, with any answer, it's always got a lot to do with you. Since research shows that vitamin D is essential for many functions, I always take it as a D3 supplement. If I've been outdoors in the sun, I may skip a dose of the D3, but usually take it every day in the winter. I also take a highly absorbed Magnesium Citrate and a high-quality Vitamin K2. This is just me, and the Magnesium eliminates muscle cramping during workouts. From this experience, I believe I need to stay consistent with magnesium supplementation. Vitamin K2 moves the calcium I get from my WOE to where it is most useful (bones) and keeps it away from where I don't want it (arteries). I eat a nutrient dense diet otherwise, so I don't use a multivitamin or take any other supplements. YMMV.
GRB5111: I'm wondering about the dose of D3. I'm getting the 100mcg Sports Research with coconut oil - should I use the 1000iu Sports Research D3?
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  #74   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 07:08
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,303
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
GRB5111: I'm wondering about the dose of D3. I'm getting the 100mcg Sports Research with coconut oil - should I use the 1000iu Sports Research D3?

s93uv3h - I'm hesitant to recommend a dose or compare different manufacturers, because I don't know enough about the efficacy of these to provide any accurate guidance. I think if you've had your D3 levels tested with a dependable testing method and know you're low or lacking, it enables you to find a well-reviewed source of D3 to correct any deficiency. Some on this forum may have already done that, so they may chime in with their findings/ recommendations. All the best!
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  #75   ^
Old Fri, Jun-29-18, 07:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,318
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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When I was looking for the KetoGeek podcast with Dr. Thomas Seyfried, found this new one posted June 21. https://www.commonwealthclub.org/ev...ancer-treatment

Have been listening to it, his usual wide ranging, quite excited talk about cancer. Numerous mentions of glutamine, inhibiting the two fuels necessary to control cancer and fasting obviously reduces both fuels. (Protocol starts with a 3 day water fast, longer if possible) Because glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the body, diet alone will not inhibit glutamine...has to be a medication as part of the Press-Pulse protocol. He is even more than excited with questions at end.
As an aside, he is opposed to punch/needle biopsies because they disturb the micro environment around a mass/tumor. This is often the first step when something "suspicious" shows up. It is what the radiologist and insurance company will want you to do; it is often hard to justify the more expensive excisional biopsy, but I did that 12 years ago. Not that I was brilliant, or knew about "Keto" and micro environments, but that any lay person looking at the X-ray and ultrasound could see the distinct shape of a cancerous mass. Now I refuse them for first reason.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Jun-30-18 at 07:03.
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