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  #1   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 10:09
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: ketosis/IF
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Default Fish vs. heart disease

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...80517081837.htm

Quote:
A new scientific advisory reaffirms the American Heart Association's recommendation to eat fish- especially those rich in Omega-3 fatty acids twice a week to help reduce the risk of heart failure, coronary heart disease, cardiac arrest and the most common type of stroke (ischemic). The advisory is published in the American Heart Association's journal Circulation.

"Since the last advisory on eating fish was issued by the Association in 2002, scientific studies have further established the beneficial effects of eating seafood rich in Omega-3 fatty acids, especially when it replaces less healthy foods such as meats that are high in artery-clogging saturated fat," said Eric B. Rimm, Sc.D., chair of the American Heart Association writing group and professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health in Boston.

The Association recommends eating two 3.5-ounce servings of non-fried fish, or about ¾ cup of flaked fish every week. Emphasis should be placed on eating oily fish like salmon, mackerel, herring, lake trout, sardines or albacore tuna, which are all high in omega-3 fatty acids.

The advisory was written by a panel of nutrition experts, who also reviewed studies about mercury in fish. Mercury is found in most seafood but is prevalent in large fish such as shark, swordfish, tilefish, king mackerel, bigeye tuna, marlin and orange roughy. The writing group concluded that while mercury contamination may be associated with serious neurological problems in newborns, existing scientific research finds that mercury contamination does not have adverse effects on heart disease risk in adults, and the benefits of eating fish substantially outweigh any risks associated with mercury contamination, especially if a variety of seafood is consumed.

The importance of environmentally sustainable fish farming techniques and other topics are also briefly discussed in the advisory. A previously published American Heart Association advisory on Omega-3 fish oil supplements noted that the supplements are not recommended for the general public to prevent clinical cardiovascular disease because of a lack of scientific evidence regarding any effect on cardiovascular risk.


I have nothing against fish, nothing against omega 3--but reading between the lines--they don't think the main positive reason for suggesting fish, the omega 3 content, has really panned out. All they have left is hoping that when we're eating fish, it will mean we're not eating beef or pork, and that it'll be a low fat meal.

So why do they push "oily fish high in omega 3" if omega 3 supplements haven't panned out? Maybe it has brand value, just like healthywholegrains.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 10:31
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Default

They're love/hate relationship with fat is funny. They recommend to eat "non-fried fish" but what they should suggest is non-breaded fried fish.
When will they stop saying that beef and pork is bad because of the "fat" but fatty fish is good?
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 11:52
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: ketosis/IF
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Default

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705336/

This review from 2013 covers most of the stuff from that article, maybe it was the basis for their stance.

One study shows eating one salmon meal a week associated with a 50 percent decrease in death from heart disease. I think salmon's great. It's possible it does save lives, but I won't be convinced until the data comes in from fish diet interventions vs. epidemiology.

This is interesting;

Quote:
Reduced anxiety in forensic inpatients after a long-term intervention with Atlantic salmon.
Hansen AL1, Olson G2, Dahl L3, Thornton D4, Grung B5, Graff IE6, Frøyland L7, Thayer JF8.
Author information
Abstract
The aim of the present study was to investigate the effects of Atlantic salmon consumption on underlying biological mechanisms associated with anxiety such as heart rate variability (HRV) and heart rate (HR) as well as a measure of self-reported anxiety. Moreover, these biological and self-reported outcome measures were investigated in relation to specific nutrients; vitamin D status, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Ninety-five male forensic inpatients were randomly assigned into a Fish (Atlantic salmon three times per week from September to February) or a Control group (alternative meal, e.g., chicken, pork, or beef three times per week during the same period). HRV measured as the root mean square of successive differences (rMSSD), HR, state- and trait-anxiety (STAI), were assessed before (pre-test) and at the end of the 23 weeks dietary intervention period (post-test). The Fish group showed significant improvements in both rMSSD and HR. The Fish group also showed significant decreases in state-anxiety. Finally, there was a positive relationship between rMSSD and vitamin D status. The findings suggest that Atlantic salmon consumption may have an impact on mental health related variables such as underlying mechanisms playing a key role in emotion-regulation and state-anxiety.


Anxiety/depression is a bit hard to study in people, placebo effects tend to be "strong." Are people answering mood questionaires to please the researchers, are they optimistic specifically when thinking about an intervention that it might help, putting them in a better state just exactly when it's being measured, etc. But a good point here I tend to forget, vitamin d, at something like 500 iu per 100 grams, salmon can be a major source. I'm suspicious when something in diet affects my own mood, it has to hold true a fair number of times before I'll say, okay, that's a thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25431880
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 13:45
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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I actually find this hilarious:

Quote:
existing scientific research finds that mercury contamination does not have adverse effects on heart disease risk in adults



I would assume the same can be said of arsenic and lead - no heart disease risk from them, so feel free to eat as much as you want of them.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, May-20-18, 17:40
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mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
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Plan: PSMF/IF
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Default

Well, those toxins are "all natural"
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, May-20-18, 18:16
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: Paleo 99.5%
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Default

Placebo effect works by the brain actually producing opioids which is why one feels better even when given a sugar pill. But the effect tends to be less effective than something that actually works, especially over time. (Thank you, Radio Lab podcast!)

I'm a big believer in eating fish. Many things improve for me when I eat fish everyday. My arthritis is a biggie.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, May-21-18, 09:34
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Placebo effect works by the brain actually producing opioids which is why one feels better even when given a sugar pill. But the effect tends to be less effective than something that actually works, especially over time. (Thank you, Radio Lab podcast!)


That is awesome to know, thanks, Nancy!

I have found that ever since I make a point of avoiding Omega 6 oils, and seeking out Omega 3s, I feel less inflammation, which can only be a GOOD thing.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, May-23-18, 06:48
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
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Default

Quote:
"The importance of environmentally sustainable fish farming techniques and other topics are also briefly discussed in the advisory."


Could this be the impetus for their observations? Environmentally sustainable fish farming is a lightning rod in this case, as farmed fish don't provide the same nutrient profile as wild fish. Not even close. It appears to be coming out of the Harvard group that periodically sends these messages. Fish farming has become a big business, are there dots to connect???
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, May-23-18, 07:05
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/157.2/154 Male 67inches
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Default

There's a lot of reversion to mean and the cyclic nature of bipolar sorts of depression to deal with, as well. Often there is likely no placebo "effect" that we can be certain of. Placebo doesn't have to have an effect, all you need is a base set of conditions where things might have improved, anyways.

We only know if a drug works if it shows better result than placebo. How do we know that placebo works, in a "who watches the watchers" sense, what is the placebo for placebo?
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, May-24-18, 22:26
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is online now
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
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Dr. Dale Bredesen recommends SMASH (salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines, and herring) in his 2017 book The End of Alzheimer's. My wife always gets mackerel at the seafood market, and I like it.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, May-24-18, 23:48
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BillyHW BillyHW is online now
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Default

People are still going on about arterycloggingsaturatedfat?
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, May-25-18, 07:45
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
Dr. Dale Bredesen recommends SMASH (salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines, and herring) in his 2017 book The End of Alzheimer's. My wife always gets mackerel at the seafood market, and I like it.


I've never had fresh mackerel, only canned - which I'm not wild about. But it's a heck of a lot cheaper than canned salmon. Mostly I eat sardines because I like them & they're easy. I try to buy a bunch every time they're on sale.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, May-25-18, 08:59
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 2,156
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Mackerel are an oily fish, much like bluefish, only smaller. Can catch in bunches on the northeast coast during certain times in the summer season. I love fish, but don't care for either mackerel or blues, as they don't compare to the white meat from cod, haddock, flounder (sole), or other fish from colder waters. However, the have a higher omega 3 content, so there's that. I have never tried them canned, but do favor sardines or anchovies from a can. Good on salads, etc. But in all cases, I'm referring to wild caught fish, not farmed.

I do supplement daily with The Very Finest Fish Oil (Lemon flavor) by Carlson. Yes, fish oil supplements have been somewhat controversial with some claiming nirvana and others claiming no positive impacts for brain or heart. Me? I take about 2 teaspoons mostly daily, as I believe it provides a source of healthy omega 3s, and if nothing more, it balances the omega 6s I'm sure to be consuming from other foods. Any hey, I love a good placebo effect, and even in the unlikely event where that's the only value I'm getting, I'm all for it!
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, May-25-18, 11:21
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is online now
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
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My wife had always made mackerel for herself in the past. Decided to try some and it just clicked. I like it best when it's leftover, and I just grab one and pinch bites with my fingers while I'm cooking my eggs and whathaveyou. I keep meaning to add some shoyu or vinegar, but it's so good plain. All that's left is the tiny backbone with bones when I'm done.

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  #15   ^
Old Sun, May-27-18, 17:46
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
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Default

Yeah, fish farming. I read an article just within the week about how terrible farmed salmon is - yet they still say to eat salmon. And almost all salmon is farmed!

Oh yeah. This was an article a friend had linked to on Facebook:
http://www.healthy-holistic-living....tent=40319-BHTJ

Last edited by Merpig : Sun, May-27-18 at 19:24.
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