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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-18, 19:58
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
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Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
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Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Question HVMN Ketone - Superfuel for Athletes

Quote:
With HVMN Ketone, a Tour de France cyclist can go an extra 400 meters in a 30-minute time trial.
HVMN Ketone is the world’s first 100% Ketone ester and the perfect race day fuel. Feel your body on ketones and reach next-level results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuufQNg-V_0

The issue I feel with this ketone drinking, other than it's $30 a shot, is the fine print that hints it works best with fasting. I would expect being keto-adapted and doing IF would be a plus as well. I think ill just get my ketones on low-carb, not some new silicon valley bio-gimmick
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Feb-26-18, 22:08
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,303
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
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That commercial for HVMN Ketone Esther is an attention getter. Everyone is looking for the magic pill or potion in this case. The new steroid-like substance for performance enhancement. No longer are we satisfied with optimum health through diet and our own metabolic processes. We need an exogenous substance that provides peak performance beyond what a body chemistry is capable and far easier to achieve as opposed to natural means. The future is now.

Sorry, I'll stick with a VLCKD approach. At least I know I can achieve it through natural metabolic capabilities the way I'm meant to. I'll leave the spectacles to others.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Feb-27-18, 05:36
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Vague promises work on vague people
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Feb-27-18, 19:06
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,294
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Sorry, I'll stick with a VLCKD approach. At least I know I can achieve it through natural metabolic capabilities the way I'm meant to. I'll leave the spectacles to others.
Yeah, looking into CR and keto for info on "health extension" as we age I found this article:

http://alivebynature.com/keto-fasting-life-extension/
Quote:
What if you combine a very-low carbohydrate diet with bouts of intermittent fasting? That's exactly what I do, and it should give synergistic benefits.
If you start from a base of low-carb eating, and then fast for a period of time, this should more strongly induce ketosis and lower insulin levels, and more strongly increase the rate of autophagy and lipolysis (fat-burning).
Cells in the body can become senescent (not dead not alive but possibly releasing toxins) and they may be one key to why humans age, so autophagy (cell death) may be very important to health.

It was interesting the video ended briefly showing Parkinson's and other neurological disorders possibly helped by ketones.

In this video he quickly uses a Precision Xtra "keto-meter"
I say 4 is very high, but ill bet 6 is not unreasonable with a glucose reading in the 60's that we can attain naturally?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4soMn9V2cFA

Last edited by mike_d : Tue, Feb-27-18 at 19:31.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Feb-28-18, 06:40
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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I found out there was a 2016 study on Parkinson's.

Quote:
Amino acid management of Parkinson’s disease: a case study

When 5-HTP and l-dopa are administered in proper balance along with l-tyrosine, l-cysteine, and cofactors under the guidance of OCT assay interpretation, the long list of problems that can interfere with optimum administration of l-dopa becomes controllable and manageable or does not occur at all. Patient treatment then becomes more effective by allowing the implementation of the optimal dosing levels of l-dopa needed for the relief of symptoms without the dosing value barriers imposed by side effects and adverse reactions seen in the past.


In essence, balancing the L-dopa with other amino acids lets the brain manage itself and get relief from dysfunction. So... maybe the problem is that this person's brain wasn't getting enough amino acids? Maybe, just maybe, we just just make sure people get their amino acids? Like, eating meat?

And why isn't this study a standard of treatment? It's cheap and there is no downside!

This obsession about giving people pills and ignoring what is actually causing the problem is the other half of the screwed-up equation of modern Western medical care.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Feb-28-18, 06:48
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Plan: very low carb real food
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
That commercial for HVMN Ketone Esther is an attention getter. Everyone is looking for the magic pill or potion in this case. The new steroid-like substance for performance enhancement. No longer are we satisfied with optimum health through diet and our own metabolic processes. We need an exogenous substance that provides peak performance beyond what a body chemistry is capable and far easier to achieve as opposed to natural means. The future is now.

Sorry, I'll stick with a VLCKD approach. At least I know I can achieve it through natural metabolic capabilities the way I'm meant to. I'll leave the spectacles to others.


I think we need to stop equating athletic performance with health.

Jean
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Feb-28-18, 07:21
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I think we need to stop equating athletic performance with health.

Jean


That is the essence of Mark Sisson's Primal program (who blogs under Mark's Daily Apple.) He was a professional endurance athelete; and it was killing him.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Feb-28-18, 07:51
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,303
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I think we need to stop equating athletic performance with health.

Jean

Exactly, and particularly those who are impressed by improved athletic performance masquerading as health improvements who aren't even competitive athletes. Genie in a bottle syndrome is what I call it. I have many questions regarding Exogenous ketones, but not enough time and space to ask here. However, one of the benefits of fasting is the induction of autophagy. What happens when ketones are increased from an exogenous substance. Is autophagy operating in this situation? My guess is that it is not. However, lots to understand about this substance's implications for health.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Mar-04-18, 11:32
dan_rose dan_rose is offline
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Quote:
With HVMN Ketone, a Tour de France cyclist can go an extra 400 meters in a 30-minute time trial.


Equivalent to around 2% improvement (assuming 26mph average) which only top athletes would notice.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Mar-04-18, 14:39
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
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It's my understanding that all TdF cyclists are top level athletes. If 400m/30minutes, then 4km/5hours. I doubt that pace can be maintained longer than 30 minutes, but the advantage would stick, cuz all riders' paces can't be maintained either on longer than 30 minutes.

It's very likely that the advantage disappears if, a) all riders do it, and/or b) riders already eat a ketogenic diet.

So, the clip talks about a new field of investigation, and cites a few things about health. Right up my alley for this next point. I've said it before. Injecting or ingesting ketones can be a diagnostic tool to expose an underlying condition that otherwise prevents run-of-the-mill low-carb from working as it should, i.e. to quickly and effortlessly induce ketosis.

If we're doing LC as best we know, and ketones still show low or virtually nil, we already suspect there's a problem. Injecting/ingesting ketones will simply confirm our suspicion. Thing is, there's no protocol I know of, with ketone levels, level drop rates, etc, in similar fahion to an OGTT where we ingest a set amount of glucose, then test BG at fixed intervals, measure peak levels and drop rates. So, what if it only boosts by a small amount, or not at all? What if it boosts a high amount, but level drop rate is very quick? Or, and I hope for this, what if it boosts blood ketones by a high amount and this level is maintained just by eating LC afterwards?

Besides a diagnostic tool, it can probably be used to quickly return to ketosis after an unexpected or even intentional cheat.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Mar-04-18, 18:14
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,294
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
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Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Chris Froome was accused of doping in the TdF, because of his almost superhuman biometrics data, that leaked to the media. Actually he trains and races low-carb so it's just keto-doping -- even top athletes aren't all that familiar with the performance boost and weight loss that can result from the diet changes he has made.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Mar-04-18, 18:46
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
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Wouldn't be ironic if exogenous ketones were banned? How ever would they test this and what would be the threshold? The guy on Atkins induction or an all-meat diet would certainly test positive for ketones, lots of ketones, enough to go "dude, I can smell your breath from here".
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Mar-05-18, 09:15
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,294
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
Wouldn't be ironic if exogenous ketones were banned? How ever would they test this and what would be the threshold? The guy on Atkins induction or an all-meat diet would certainly test positive for ketones, lots of ketones, enough to go "dude, I can smell your breath from here".
Yeah, as well as sky-high testosterone and HGH

Then there's this -- it's not a drug it's a feature:
Quote:
Only VESPA’s naturally-occurring “wasp extract” peptide provides a safe & effective way to tap into the virtually limitless power of “fat as fuel” for natural human high-performance. The emerging sports science of “fat-adaptation”, “keto-adaptation” and “metabolic efficiency” is not new to us. VESPA has been leading the "fat as fuel" approach for over 15 years and today is the de facto leader in fat-based performance.
http://www.vespapower.com/
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Mar-05-18, 13:48
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
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It's quite impossible to raise hormone levels like testosterone and HGH beyond normal just with a ketogenic diet. They are tightly regulated by feedback loops. For example, testosterone gets converted to estrogen by aromatase, then estrogen plugs into a receptor (I forget where exactly) to, in turn, reduce testosterone production. I think it's the luteinizing hormone from the pituitary or hypothalamus or something, that's where estrogen must plug in.

What is possible is to raise levels of these hormones up to normal, which is likely to be higher than average. HGH will certainly rise since it's inhibited by hyperglycemia. Testosterone will probably rise since it's a sterol, made from cholesterol, made from fat, found in ample quantity in a keto diet, as opposed to a typical cyclist's super high-carb diet carb loadin' carb munchin' carb drinkin' before, during and after, training and race.
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Mar-05-18, 15:40
dcc0455 dcc0455 is offline
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Plan: Low Carb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
It's quite impossible to raise hormone levels like testosterone and HGH beyond normal just with a ketogenic diet. They are tightly regulated by feedback loops. For example, testosterone gets converted to estrogen by aromatase, then estrogen plugs into a receptor (I forget where exactly) to, in turn, reduce testosterone production.


Would that statement also apply to intermittent fasting? I see a lot of claims that IF will increase those hormones.
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