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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 09:32
dcc0455 dcc0455 is offline
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Posts: 153
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 230/165/160 Male 67
BF:
Progress: 93%
Default Grass Fed; Free Range; Organic (Worth It?)

Trying to decide if spending more on meat is worth it, and hoping to get feed back.

I've done pretty well with low carb, but wondering if I need to look at the quality of my food to continue making progress. Most of the low carb videos or blogs mention grass fed and organic, almost as a throw away line. What I mean by that is seems like it is promoted more as a "political" reason (environmental, humane, etc.) than a nutritional factor. That doesn't mean it is wrong, or I disagree, but I want to separate that from the actual nutrition question. Most articles talk about benefits without any actual studies showing end results. One of the arguments is Omega 6 vs Omega 3.

The article linked below suggests that you will get a much bigger reduction in Omega 6 by reducing chicken that you will buying grass fed beef. On the other side, you will get a much larger increase in Omega 3 by eating salmon.

https://medium.com/the-mission/is-g...ey-9d74cec4b3b1

What I am really interested in finding is if anyone has actually seen an improvement in their health, blood work, weight loss, or any measurable metric by switching from low cost meat and eggs to higher priced grass fed, organic and free range.

Last edited by dcc0455 : Thu, Dec-14-17 at 09:34. Reason: spelling error
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 11:32
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,519
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

I was motivated by taste, first. My husband and I swooned over the eggs we got from the health food store, and in summer I can take a trip to get them from farms and save some money. These are eggs which taste like what we remember when we were children.

While we canít always buy humane and organic meat, going for quality instead of quantity works for us. Like the organic greens cost more, but also last longer. I can buy regular apples, but then I slice them open and they are already brown in the middle, and the whole bag is thrown out for the birds and squirrels because they donít taste right.

Iím not being picky without reason. Thereís something wrong with this kind of food.

Health-wise, I know the better quality items have more micronutrients; which is something those ďorganic vs regular comparisonsĒ never mention. I have a tricky health condition and get quick feedback from better quality, though I canít offer tests or anything to prove it.

It depends on what goes on in your area, and how stark the differences are.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 11:55
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,210
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/175/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 25%
Location: NE WA
Default

The only reason I buy organic lettuce is because I share it with my rabbits - they have delicate systems & can't handle pesticides.

I don't buy organic meat & eggs (except for my own chicken eggs but the hens are on strike right now) because I can't afford it. I get decent meat at my regular grocery. Tried Walmart to save money but it was awful.

I no longer buy chicken as it doesn't seem to agree with me. I'm also not a fan of the way most meat chickens are raised. For white meat I stick to my rabbits. Pricey - but delish.

Meat cows - at least around here - spend most of their life on pasture.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 11:57
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

If I had to choose between ketogenic/low carb and grassfed/organic etc, I'd choose ketogenic/low carb. And I do have to make that choice, so that's the one I make.

As far as omega 6's go--I think omega 6-->inflammation is way oversimplified, it's easy to find studies looking at mechanisms by which omega 6 metabolites are involved in inflammation, but if you go looking for interventions exchanging omega 6 fatty acids for other fatty acids, the evidence is so mixed that it's hard to have an opinion. I feel like a bit of a blue-monkey even saying that. The only unquestionably bad fat seems to be trans fat.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 12:18
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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Posts: 4,138
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Whether or not it is worth it depends on your priorities. There are both ethical and health considerations as well as economic considerations. In other words there's no easy answer. I buy only organic and grassfed but there are lots of things I don't spend money on. When I started this low carb journey many years ago my health was in terrible shape including major GI issues. I decided then to try to optimize my health. It became my top priority. I don't have a car. I don't go on vacations. I don't eat out but I eat organic and grassfed. Ethical concerns about the treatment of animals and the land also enter into it but this is my personal decision. Other people come to other decisions. My hope is that my health has benefitted from the choices I have made but there's no way to be sure how much of a role grassfed and organic has played..

Jean
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 14:01
dcc0455 dcc0455 is offline
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Posts: 153
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 230/165/160 Male 67
BF:
Progress: 93%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
If I had to choose between ketogenic/low carb and grassfed/organic etc, I'd choose ketogenic/low carb. And I do have to make that choice, so that's the one I make.


I watched a panel Q&A with an off camera question (Jimmy Moore?) to Dr. Westman regarding when in the process does Dr. Westman introduce the need for higher quality food. His response was maybe never. The questioner seemed to want to argue the point, but Westmans response was that the most important thing was eating low carb, and not everyone had the option of a grain fed or organic diet.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 22:13
Zei Zei is offline
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Posts: 1,340
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
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The article doesn't address another factor which is whether corn-fed beef contains unhealthy plant lectins from its feed. Dr. Gundry "The Plant Paradox" book I read recommends avoiding lectins, which are protective proteins some plants produce to make animals sick so they won't eat the plant. Grain (high in lectins) fed meat is on the avoid list. I've been mostly following Dr. Gundry's book recommendations on avoiding high lectin plants plus products from animals that ate them (grass fed ground beef is more affordable at Aldi if one is near you plus better taste/smell than conventional). The biggest thing I noticed is my high cholesterol numbers went way down.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 22:33
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 9,199
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

Problem with a lot of what they're selling as grass fed beef is unverifiable because it's imported. Uruguay is exporting to the US and I did a little of reading and found out that in fact they are feeding grain at some points.
Even Organic veggies, for me if it says Mexico I don't even consider it verifiable.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 22:35
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Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

I agree with Teaser and Dr Westman. Low carb is going to show a huge improvement and organic/grass fed on top of that will be incrementally better.

When I lived in TX, we had easy access to organic grass fed beef and lamb and humanely raised pork and chicken at a very reasonable price. Now that we've moved to WA, it is more expensive and not so easily available. I probably buy half and half now. No matter what, I'm way ahead of the SAD diet.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Dec-14-17, 22:42
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 9,199
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

Well there is easy access at whole foods if you want to spend $14 on an organic chicken instead of $4 at Kroger for a conventionally raised bird. That does increase one's meat bill quite a bit.
I could have one of my own cattle butchered but there to close to me so I would rather raise and sell, then buy retail.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Dec-15-17, 05:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,519
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
If I had to choose between ketogenic/low carb and grassfed/organic etc, I'd choose ketogenic/low carb.


Oh, certainly, and it's a huge leap upward in terms of SAD vs even the most AS/seed oil/iceberg lettuce kind of low carb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
I've been mostly following Dr. Gundry's book recommendations on avoiding high lectin plants plus products from animals that ate them (grass fed ground beef is more affordable at Aldi if one is near you plus better taste/smell than conventional). The biggest thing I noticed is my high cholesterol numbers went way down.


My bold and I think it's worth bolding. Likewise, I go for pastured cheese and yogurt (which often means goat.)

But just like I ate less and was more satisfied when I went from SAD to Atkins, I am also able to increase my fasting window by eating higher quality food when I do eat.

It's like the difference between peanuts and macadamias. One is cheap, is actually a bean, and just makes me want to eat more. While the other is pricey, more delicious, and I am able to eat the "child's handful" which is an actual portion.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Dec-15-17, 06:50
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,340
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
Default

On the lectin thing, peanuts/legumes are one of the baddies. Legumes and grains are the plant's seed babies they don't want you to eat, so all the lectins/anti-nutrients that go in to protect them. Concerning my big cholesterol drop, I am following the avoidance list for a number of plant foods that contain lectins (grains/legumes, nightshades, etc.) and not just the products of animals that picked up lectins in their bodies from feed. I don't know yet if my cholesterol results would be maintained if I continue to avoid offending plants but add back conventional animal products. Haven't reached that stage of n=1 personal testing yet. I do agree that going low carb and ditching grainy sugary junk is a primary thing for health regardless of type of animal products one can afford to consume.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Dec-16-17, 09:09
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Posts: 1,104
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

As with most choices, worth it has a lot to do with your financial situation - obviously if switching to LC food choices already stretches your budget to it's limits, and giving up your car is far less practical than keeping it. For example if your home is already paid for, and traveling to work without your own car would require hiring a taxi 5-6 days a week, but if you moved close enough to work to walk, or within range of mass transit, but that housing would cost far more than you could possibly get by selling your current home, then it's not practical at all to give up the car. If you have that sort of situation, or any similar unsurmountable hindrances to revamping your budget, then going organic/grass fed/free range may not ever be within the realm of feasibility.

If you're not getting the overall health results you want from simply going LC though, it might be worth trying to figure out some other way you could economize in order to pay triple for food, so that you could give organic/grass fed/free range at least a trial run. It's very much an individual situation though (werebear and cotonpal have certainly had good results), whether or not there's any way to pay for organics, and whether or not it helps.
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