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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Dec-05-17, 11:29
locarb4avr locarb4avr is offline
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Posts: 216
 
Plan: My own plan
Stats: 220/138/132 Male 65in
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: 92646
Default 'I beat type 2 diabetes with 200-calorie drinks'

'I beat type 2 diabetes with 200-calorie drinks'
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-42154666


Primary care-led weight management for remission of type 2 diabetes (DiRECT): an open-label, cluster-randomised trial
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...ext?elsca1=tlpr

Interpretation
Our findings show that, at 12 months, almost half of participants achieved remission to a non-diabetic state and off antidiabetic drugs. Remission of type 2 diabetes is a practical target for primary care.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Dec-07-17, 06:40
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,549
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

This is getting press in US too.
ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rigoro...ory?id=51600933

"Rigorous Diet" for sure.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/type-2-d...-says-new-study

Quote:
Type 2 diabetes is most often looked upon as a chronic progressive disease which can only be managed by medications. But a new randomised-controlled trial published in The Lancet defies this belief, showing that it is reversible.

Our findings show that, at 12 months, almost half of participants achieved remission to a non-diabetic state and off antidiabetic drugs. Remission of type 2 diabetes is a practical target for primary care.

These results were achieved with a very-low-calorie formula diet, including fewer carbohydrates than before. This is not likely a method that is sustainable for life not many people want to live on a formula diet for life. But the results clearly demonstrate that a diet change can reverse type 2 diabetes.

Fortunately, science and experience suggests that many people can achieve similar type 2 diabetes reversal using a low-carb (ideally keto) diet and intermittent fasting.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Dec-07-17, 06:53
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 3,350
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Why are these kinds of studies done as if there is not already evidence that type 2 diabetes can be reversed and in a manner that is much more likely to be sustainable, namely a low carb diet? I have ignorance or perhaps denial fatigue. I'm tired of seeing studies that ignore the elephant in the room.

Jean
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Dec-07-17, 08:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 11,452
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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I think lot of this is about trying to get people to stop ignoring the elephant. There's an embarrassment of data showing type II diabetes can often be reversed or at least put into remission. I think there's plenty of room for medically supervised "rigorous diets," what's needed is support for rigorous maintenance, and that can't mean sustaining unsustainably low calories long-term. Maybe an intermittent approach could work. I find steady-state keto a lot easier.

Roy Taylor points out, as a lot of the people studying very low calorie diets (3 digit calories, at least), that overweight people often experience a decrease in appetite when calories get that low, where with a smaller calorie restriction they might not. But this happens after three or four days or more have passed. If anything, being at a lower weight makes people more hungry not less--eating to maintenance at a reduced body weight is itself calorie restriction. An overweight person intermittently eating less calories might not make up for the deficit on ad-lib days, but a lean person will, and a reduced weight person might more than make up for the down days. That's my tendency.

Even with a low carb diet decreasing calories will probably give a quicker reversal, the problem might be in the CICO philosophy that often comes with the lower calorie approach. A low carb diet shines for weight loss. There are studies showing weight loss doesn't correspond with ketosis. For me, this is sort of true, but ketosis does seem to make for easier maintenance.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Dec-08-17, 10:39
locarb4avr locarb4avr is offline
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Posts: 216
 
Plan: My own plan
Stats: 220/138/132 Male 65in
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: 92646
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Recent researches show brain diseases might need to be classified as DB type 3 or 4.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Dec-08-17, 10:48
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
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Location: Texas
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Drink mixes and then what? Nobody can live that way indefinitely.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 04:06
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,549
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

The original reports of Roy Taylor's protocol were in 2014. Supposedly the chap who wrote his reversal story for the Daily Mail was able to keep diabetes at bay even after eating real food again. Would like to see a current update from him.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=457405

These 800 calorie a day of shakes and soups plans have been around for years, Medi-fast, Opti-fast in the US. Where are similar reports of LT success? [I did one under doctor supervision in 1990, results maybe lasted 6 months . ] In the U.K., the same products are made by Cambridge Weight Plan ...what a surprise, the "reasearchers" have interests in that company or the affiliated nutrition counseling service. "The study was funded by Diabetes UK, but the principal investigators have financial ties to the Cambridge Weight Plan and Counterweight. Cambridge manufactures the Frankenfood *** starvation rations. Counterweight supplies the nutrition counseling. Their primary goal is to make money, not come up with the best possible way to get Type 2 diabetes into remission and keep it that way."

*** Skimmed Milk powder, soya flour, soya protein isolate, inulin, then flavors and stabilizers topped off with some Aspertame, the artificial sweetener most controversial.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Dec-09-17 at 04:15.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 05:32
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 3,350
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
*** Skimmed Milk powder, soya flour, soya protein isolate, inulin, then flavors and stabilizers topped off with some Aspertame, the artificial sweetener most controversial.


That's not food. It's a toxic chemical brew.

Jean
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 06:01
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,452
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

I've found reducing food variety can make things easier losing weight (though never with such low calories). Pre-formed hamburger patties and spinach, brocolli etc. works just as good as shakes, though.
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 06:17
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 3,350
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I've found reducing food variety can make things easier losing weight (though never with such low calories). Pre-formed hamburger patties and spinach, brocolli etc. works just as good as shakes, though.


I think that's at least part of the reason I don't find it difficult to maintain my weight loss, I stick to the same foods day after day, a little variety in meat choices and a little variety in vegetable choice, but very little decision making involved. Easy, satisfying and works for me plus its all real food. It occurred to me the other day that I no longer just open the refrigerator and scan the contents to figure out what I want to eat. That's a habit from way back in my past pre low carb days. Lot's of variables involved in figuring out how best to eat, quality of food, quantity of food, selection of food, timing of food. The drink used in this study literally makes me nauseous just thinking about the ingredients.

Jean
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 06:58
PaCarolSue PaCarolSue is offline
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Posts: 307
 
Plan: Whatever Works
Stats: 217/199.5/195 Female 5ft 2 inches
BF:lots/lots/less
Progress: 80%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I've found reducing food variety can make things easier losing weight (though never with such low calories). Pre-formed hamburger patties and spinach, brocolli etc. works just as good as shakes, though.


It has always (37 yrs) been a problem for me that DH has a very small list of what he will eat. It has always made meal planning difficult. But he has never been the least bit overweight!!!
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 08:23
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Posts: 1,026
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I've found reducing food variety can make things easier losing weight (though never with such low calories). Pre-formed hamburger patties and spinach, brocolli etc. works just as good as shakes, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I think that's at least part of the reason I don't find it difficult to maintain my weight loss, I stick to the same foods day after day, a little variety in meat choices and a little variety in vegetable choice, but very little decision making involved. Easy, satisfying and works for me plus its all real food. It occurred to me the other day that I no longer just open the refrigerator and scan the contents to figure out what I want to eat. That's a habit from way back in my past pre low carb days. Lot's of variables involved in figuring out how best to eat, quality of food, quantity of food, selection of food, timing of food. The drink used in this study literally makes me nauseous just thinking about the ingredients.

Jean


I was about to say pretty much the same thing.

If you don't spend a lot of time seeking out new foods to try, new and different combinations of flavors, tantalizing your taste buds (both during the mouth watering anticipation phase of "Oooh, that sounds good!", and the lip-licking eating phase), then it becomes just food to you, instead of "Food, glorious food!"

I think that's part of the reason that 800 calories/day of franken-shakes and soups works for them - they're resigned to the fact that this is what they're going to eat, this is all there is for them to eat, so they don't think about it any more than simply consuming it to ease hunger.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 08:39
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,003
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

I once got into reading reviews of Nutri-System, which offers dehydrated food delivered to your door. It's very expensive and frankly sounds unappetizing, but there were people who loved it, lost weight, and were sadsadsad they couldn't afford to do it long term.

I discussed it on this board a while back, and expressed my puzzlement that, in these days of phone calculators and calorie information on labels, these same people didn't just throw frozen meals in their cart and eat them according to the same pattern. Re-creating Nutri-System for a fraction of the price and a somewhat upgrade in palatability. I mean, I did that while calorie counting, but of course it never worked But for people who claimed it did work, why not?

I was told true tales of people for whom that was "too much effort." As always, color me astonished.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 08:40
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 3,350
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I was about to say pretty much the same thing.

If you don't spend a lot of time seeking out new foods to try, new and different combinations of flavors, tantalizing your taste buds (both during the mouth watering anticipation phase of "Oooh, that sounds good!", and the lip-licking eating phase), then it becomes just food to you, instead of "Food, glorious food!"

I think that's part of the reason that 800 calories/day of franken-shakes and soups works for them - they're resigned to the fact that this is what they're going to eat, this is all there is for them to eat, so they don't think about it any more than simply consuming it to ease hunger.


Exactly - food is nourishment not entertainment in my world.

Jean
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Dec-09-17, 12:10
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,047
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
Exactly - food is nourishment not entertainment in my world.

Jean


I'm working on that. For most of my life food has a reward, a taste treat, a way to socialize, a way to deal with depression & other problems. Very slowly it is becoming - just food.
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