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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 09:50
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Default teens, low vitamin k, enlargement of the heart

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...71002105224.htm

Quote:
Low consumption of vitamin K by adolescents associated with unhealthy enlargement of the heart's major pumping chamber

Scientists have found another reason for children to eat their green leafy vegetables.

A study of 766 otherwise healthy adolescents showed that those who consumed the least vitamin K1- found in spinach, cabbage, iceberg lettuce and olive oil -- were at 3.3 times greater risk for an unhealthy enlargement of the major pumping chamber of their heart, according to the study published in The Journal of Nutrition. Vitamin K1, or phylloquinone, is the predominant form of vitamin K in the U.S. diet.

"Those who consumed less had more risk," says Dr. Norman Pollock, bone biologist at the Georgia Prevention Institute at the Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University and the study's corresponding author.

Overall, about 10 percent of the teens had some degree of this left ventricular hypertrophy, Pollock and his colleagues report.

Left ventricular changes are more typically associated with adults whose hearts have been working too hard, too long to get blood out to the body because of sustained, elevated blood pressure. Unlike other muscles, a larger heart can become inefficient and ineffective.

The scientists believe theirs is the first study exploring associations between vitamin K and heart structure and function in young people. While more work is needed, their findings suggest that early interventions to ensure young people are getting adequate vitamin K1 could improve cardiovascular development and reduce future disease risk, they write.

In the 14-18 year olds who consumed the least vitamin K1, the study found the overall size and wall thickness of the left ventricle were already significantly greater and the amount of blood the heart pumped out significantly lower, Pollock says.

Changes were independent of other factors known to influence heart structure and function, including sex, race, body composition, physical activity and blood pressure, says Mary Ellen Fain, MCG second-year student and the study's co-first author.

Only 25 percent of the teens in the study met current adequate intake levels of the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine, Pollock notes.

"They had higher levels relative to the other kids," Fain said. "But even at that age, it seemed to make a difference in their hearts." Fain and Pollock noted that it was clear than none of the participants consumed large amounts of the vitamin.

Vitamin K is known to be important to blood clotting and healthy bones. There is increasing evidence of its cardiovascular impact as well. For example, one direct, negative impact of low vitamin K intake on the heart may be reduced activity of matrix Gla protein, which helps prevent calcium deposits on blood vessel walls.

Pollock, who is also leading a novel study of the cardiovascular impact of a vitamin K supplement on obese children already showing signs of diabetes risk, has early evidence that the vitamin levels are lower in obese and overweight children.

Like matrix Gla protein, vitamin K is essential to increased production of osteocalcin, a protein hormone important to bone metabolism and insulin sensitivity. Those parallels -- and the fact that osteocalcin can't currently be given directly -- led Pollock to pursue his ongoing clinical trial in obese children with higher-fasting glucose levels. Pollock's lab and other investigators in the United States and Europe are also looking at the impact of vitamin K supplements on adults with heart disease, but adult findings to date have been inconclusive.

Further study is needed to clarify the importance of vitamin K1 intake to cardiovascular development and to better understand how vitamin K dependent proteins, like matrix Gla protein, aid cardiovascular development and health, the scientists note.

Participants wore activity monitors for seven days and completed between three and seven 24-hour periods of self-reports about what they ate. About 70 percent had a least six days of food records, which increases the accuracy of self-reports, Pollock says. Echocardiography was used to examine the left ventricle.

Fain received a plenary poster award for the research at the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research 2017 Annual Meeting Sept. 8-11 in Denver. The research was funded by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, the American Heart Association and the Medical Scholars Program at MCG and AU.

The Framingham Offspring Cohort Study found an association between higher vitamin K1 levels and higher levels of the good LDL cholesterol and lower lipid levels in the blood, both associated with healthier hearts. Adult studies, like the Nurses' Health Study and Prospective Army Coronary Calcium study, have provided conflicting evidence of its cardiovascular impact.

The short-acting vitamin is active only about six hours after it's consumed.


I don't know if this is causation, or just the obvious correlation of low vitamin k intake with a crummy diet. But this;

Quote:
Overall, about 10 percent of the teens had some degree of this left ventricular hypertrophy, Pollock and his colleagues report.


One more "adult" disease process showing up in kids.

A ten percent overall occurence of hypertrophy, with the lowest k intake third of the teens having a prevalence 3.3 times that of the highest intake third implies a pretty high rate for kids with low vitamin k intake.

The study itself is free:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/147/10/1960.full
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 10:58
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khrussva khrussva is online now
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IMO, this is one correlation that might actually be pointing to a causation. I've read enough about vitamin K (K2 in particular) to know that my old diet was likely deficient. It is one of the few supplements that I decided to take daily.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 12:29
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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I'm trying to understand this and see how it would correlate to my
body and one thing that stood out to me in the article that
would concern me is that it thickens the blood.
I wonder how this would interact with vitamin E which some people take to thin the blood?
I also wonder if this could be fatal in someone older who could be prone to blood clots or stroke if the blood is thickened.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 13:11
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khrussva khrussva is online now
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Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I'm trying to understand this and see how it would correlate to my
body and one thing that stood out to me in the article that
would concern me is that it thickens the blood.
I wonder how this would interact with vitamin E which some people take to thin the blood?
I also wonder if this could be fatal in someone older who could be prone to blood clots or stroke if the blood is thickened.

Here is an article on Livestrong.com that addresses some of your issues...

What Happens With Too Much Vitamin K?

If you look on the right side of that page there are links to other vitamin K related articles.

From what I read, vitamin K does not thicken or thin the blood. It aids (is required for) blood to clot. Too much vitamin K becomes an issue if you have health problems where a blood thinner is prescribed. Vitamin K can counteract the blood thinning benefit from those drugs, which may increase your risk of clotting.

A vitamin K deficiency can result in slower blood clotting. Some signs of a deficiency include nose bleeds and cuts or other injuries that are slow to stop bleeding. While I was never diagnosed as vitamin K deficient, I have had several occurrences of these symptoms since my teenage years. I've had bouts of spontaneous nose bleeds several times in my life. I've even been to the ER a couple of times for cuts that would not stop bleeding. So I suspect that I have had times where I was vitamin K deficient.

My doctor does have me taking a daily low dose aspirin. At my last annual checkup she ask me for a list of any supplements that I was taking and I did mention that I was taking a K2 supplement. She didn't object.

The Vitamin K2 variation of vitamin K aids in the proper distribution of calcium in the body. That is the main reason I decided to start supplementing. It is supposed to be beneficial for stronger bones and arterial health. So as with many such things, we have to weigh the potential benefits with the risks. I think I get more benefit, so I chose to add K2 to my short list of supplements.

Last edited by khrussva : Wed, Oct-04-17 at 15:08.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 13:55
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Clotting is good. Being in a state of health where blood properly clotting in response to an injury is dangerous is bad.

I used to get spontaneous nose bleeds too. They started around grade eleven, that's the first time I ever went on a diet, also around when I started working out. The diet was Eat to Win, low fat, very high carb. Sugar-free wheat puffs were healthfood. Might as well have had Sugar Crisp or Cocoa Pebbles for all the good that did me. Lots of cavities, abscessed teeth. I kept getting nosebleeds, right through my teens and my twenties, especially when I dieted, still low fat. I haven't had a nosebleed since I went low carb.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 17:19
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Taking K2, even though I eat my greens. Helps D3 do its work.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Oct-04-17, 17:50
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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I see now that it doesn't thicken the blood. I guess what made me think that was the clotting effect that as happened to me once when I went to donate blood and my blood was thick and kept clotting. That's when they told me I must be dehydrated.

Quote:
Vitamin K is known to be important to blood clotting and healthy bones. There is increasing evidence of its cardiovascular impact as well. For example, one direct, negative impact of low vitamin K intake on the heart may be reduced activity of matrix Gla protein, which helps prevent calcium deposits on blood vessel walls.


The heart effects are pretty dramatic if there is a deficiency....and sure don't want calcium in the blood vessels.

Very interesting....
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Oct-06-17, 14:39
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Reading the other article on potassium....is K2 potassium or no?
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Oct-06-17, 15:56
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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No, vitamin k is sort of a lipid molecule, in the same general chemical class as squalene, that's a precursor for cholesterol, vitamin d, and CoQ10. Sometimes potassium and vitamin k get mixed up because the chemical symbol for potassium is K. But both interact with calcium, by different routes.

Quote:
Since this carrier enzyme (Na+
-Ca2+
translocator) uses the Na gradient generated by the Na+
-K+
pump to remove Ca2+
from the intracellular space, slowing down the Na+
-K+
pump results in a permanently elevated Ca2+
level in the muscle, which may be the mechanism of the long-term inotropic effect of cardiac glycosides such as digoxin.


Bit thick here from Wikipedia. Basically, the sodium/potassium pump is an enzyme that drives sodium out of the cell and drives potassium into the cell. These are coupled, it can't do one without doing the other. This sustains a chemical gradient that enables another enzyme to exchange calcium in the cell for the sodium outside the cell. I don't know if this is the mechanism by which potassium protected from calcification in that other study, but it seems likely to be relevant.


The Japanese used to have less atherosclerosis than Westerners, not sure where they stand now, it would be pretty wild if it turned out that their very high post WWII salt intake, the one aspect of their diet most vilified, had had a protective effect.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Oct-06-17, 17:13
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teaser teaser is offline
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566462/

"Proper Calcium Use: Vitamin K2 as a Promoter of Bone and Cardiovascular Health"
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Oct-07-17, 15:12
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Thank you Teaser, very interesting articles!
I guess it all comes down to getting the calcium to go where we want it to go, into our bones and not into our arteries....
The list is growing...
D, Magnesium and now K, K2...

Here are some foods in the link you posted:
"Vitamin K1 is made in plants and algae; green leafy vegetables are a particularly rich source. On the other hand, bacteria generate vitamin K2, which can also be found in meat, dairy, eggs, and fermented foods, such as cheese, yogurt, and natto—a Japanese dish of fermented soybeans"
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Oct-19-17, 13:45
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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I found a great list of vitamin K foods

Top Ten Foods Highest in Vitamin K
https://www.healthaliciousness.com/...f-vitamin-k.php
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