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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 07:49
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default Balancing Weight Loss & Nutrition

I know I need to read more and I plan to, but I also value the input I get from the folks on this forum and need some advice on going forward long term with this WOE.

So far, I've tried to keep it simple: "eat less carbs and calories and lose more weight". The low carb WOE has pretty much eliminated my hunger as compared to before. I am now happy with two 500 calorie meals per day or even one 750 calorie meal. I am religiously staying below 20 carbs and I have had good success on the weight loss, losing over 3 pounds per week not counting week 1 where I lost a lot of water weight. I also have a half-assed exercise program going. I walk every day and get in either some cardio or resistance exercise most days.

I figure I can "expect" to average losing about 1% of my weight per week in which case its going to take me till next July to hit my goal, but I am actually shooting to do a little better and get there a little sooner. My concern is not doing any new damage to my body in the process by not getting the proper nutrition consuming so few calories.

I try to eat a variety meat, fish and low carb vegies and dairy. I focus also on trying to eat enough healthy fats by using olive oil for cooking, eating avocados and salmon. I take one Centrum Silver per day and just started taking a potassium supplement.

All things considered, these are huge changes for me. I plan to weigh close to half of what I did before I started this journey in a relatively short time, (compared to the years it took me to get into such a bad state).

Is there anything big or major that I am missing? Any other supplements maybe that I should be taking? Opinions?

Last edited by TucsonBill : Wed, Sep-27-17 at 09:37.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 09:24
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonBill
Is there anything big or major that I am missing?

The only thing I can think of is Time On Plan. Take care of what you can today, the future will take care of itself - be open and expect the unexpected is all I can add
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 09:39
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Say NO to Diabetes!
Posts: 8,671
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/228/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 92%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

My opinion on the necessity for taking daily supplements: It is over-rated and in most cases an unnecessary waste of money. If you are healthy and don't have some unusual circumstances or medical condition, then you will get what your body needs by eating a reasonable variety of whole foods. For most of my weight loss period I took no supplements at all. Sometimes I took a mulivitamin to sort of cover the bases, but I wasn't consistent with that most of the time.

During my second year eating LCHF I found my LDL cholesterol had doubled compared to what it was the year before. Reading up on that, thyroid issues were among the possibilities as a contributing factor. So I started taking a few thyroid boosting supplements for a while (I can't remember what they were). I had my thyroid levels checked and they were OK. I stopped taking those supplements.

Then last January I had a heart calcium scan done to see where I was at with my heart health. I had been morbidly obese and sedentary for decades. I ate a junky diet for decades. I smoked in my youth. Yet I hoped for a good calcium score. I was disappointed the results of that test, to say the least. You can read all about that HERE in this thread starting at post #39. Rather than repeat all of that, I'll just talk about my decision to start taking supplements as one who is among those considered at a higher risk for a heart attack. So I may have lost the weight, but I am not 100% healthy. I have significant calcification going on in my arteries. I wanted to know if there was something that could be done about that. Can it be reversed? Can I stop the progression? Drawing information from various sources, I realized that I was already doing the best things for reduced risk. I eat an anti-inflammatory LCHF diet of mostly real, whole foods, and I exercise regularly (daily). But there was also some advice about supplementation. I'll give a shout-out to Ivor Cummins and his terrific contributions to this issue. I pretty much adoped what he recommends. I currently supplement with...

Vitamin K2 - MK-7 (100 mcg)
Vitamin D3 (2000 iu)
Magnesium (500 mg)

and I threw in a daily multivitamin to cover anything else. I also take a daily low-dose aspirin, as prescribed by my doctor.

So Mr. "Supplements are overrated" is now religiously taking supplements. A CVD scare is a good reason to. In my reading up on this CVD issue I learned that vitamin K2 (a recently discovered sub-class of vitamin K), working with vitamin D plays a major roll in the proper distribution of calcium in the body. It is also understood that the amount of K2 in the typical western diet is not what it once was. My old diet was very likely vitamin K2 deficient. I read the details on a well conducted 3 year study of K2 done in Holland a few years ago. The results for improved CVD risk taking vitamin K2 supplements were promising. I don't know if these supplements are doing me any good, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I'm planning on having another calcium scan done next year. I hope to see little to no progression in my calcium score. I will be elated if it actually improves. My current lifestyle, along with this short list of supplements, is the best way I can think of to reduce my risk of a heart attack. Time will tell.

Last edited by khrussva : Thu, Sep-28-17 at 08:29.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 10:21
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khrussva
I'm planning on having another calcium scan done next year. I hope to see little to no progression in my calcium score. I will be elated if it actually improves. My current lifestyle, along with this short list of supplements, is the best way I can think of to reduce my risk of a heart attack. Time will tell.


I am hoping to get a calcium scan soon as well. I'm waiting for a local hospital to get approval from its legal department to start offering them.

When I was reading about the subject I came across some articles about "serrapeptase" - I'm wondering if you came to any conclusions about it.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 10:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,340
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Before you start supplementing, have a reason to do so like Ken, or get your levels tested first. Living in Tucson, you are likely not Vit D deficient, but being older, overweight, using sunscreen, staying inside can surprisingly lead to low levels even in the sunbelt. It is a simple blood test, but not cheap, about $60 at a direct lab. I aim for a higher vitamin D level due to cancer history, so test annually and manage the dose from that.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 10:57
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Before you start supplementing, have a reason to do so like Ken, or get your levels tested first. Living in Tucson, you are likely not Vit D deficient, but being older, overweight, using sunscreen, staying inside can surprisingly lead to low levels even in the sunbelt. It is a simple blood test, but not cheap, about $60 at a direct lab. I aim for a higher vitamin D level due to cancer history, so test annually and manage the dose from that.


I agree 100% about not becoming a supplement freak The more I read about them, the more ridiculous the claims seem and its easy to see how someone could easily go overboard on them. The extra vitamins I'm taking are cheap and I figure they can't hurt and the extra potassium does seem to have helped as I am not having the muscle pain like before and again, I figure it can't hurt.

Vitamin D I should be OK on. I get a fair amount of sun every day just working in the yard - maybe 20-30 minutes - not always direct and not excessive and I don't use sun screen unless I plan a long exposure so I should be OK there. I've always had a very light tan on my exposed skin.

I just wanted to be sure that there is nothing obvious I'm missing, (like the vitamin D could be for some people).
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 11:27
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I think supplementation starts to matter more going towards a stricter ketogenic diet, restricting protein restricts micronutrition to some degree. I usually try to eat so things look pretty good on fitday, but I take a multivitamin just as insurance. I also use half-potassium salt and some magnesium, I was getting stomach muscle cramps working out, that reversed those. Vitamin d when the sun goes away.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 13:34
CMCM's Avatar
CMCM CMCM is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,264
 
Plan: Keto / Atkins VLC
Stats: 173/148.6/135 Female 5'6"
BF:23.9
Progress: 64%
Location: N. Calif. Sierra Nevadas
Default

I grew up with a mother who was a fervent reader of Adele Davis, and we always got basic supplements growing up, so I had that orientation. I'm sure many of today's foods are nutrient depleted somewhat, but I do think unless you live somewhere like Arizona or Florida, etc. you might need extra Vitamin D, so I take that (although not every day). I occasionally take magnesium and potassium to prevent leg cramps, but I only take them occasionally if I sense a problem with cramps. I don't eat enough fish so I take good quality Omega 3's. I used to take way more supplements than I do now, though.

The bottom line is that lack of nutrients is really MORE of a problem if you are stuffing down all those empty, worthless, nutritionally empty carbs that most people base their diets on. By dumping all the bad carbs, we haven't lost a thing, and in fact, we'll probably eat MORE of the good things instead and therefore get more of the vitamins and other nutrients the body needs.

I feel better eating VLC than I EVER did when the bad stuff was in my diet, there is no denying that.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 14:26
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,269
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

I think when it comes to supplements there is very little clarity on what's needed. I track my food on Cronometer which gives you the micronutrient contents as a percentage of RDA and then I supplement accordingly. I would suggest you get your vitamin D3 tested just to make sure you have an adequate amount. Living in a sunny place is not always enough. I get mine tested through Grassroots Health. It's online and they send you a test kit to mail back. I also supplement with magnesium and potassium and it prevents muscle cramps. I notice when I forget to take them. I also take high potency fish oil which is said to have numerous health benefits for both heart and brain function, among other things. Is all this necessary Who knows?

Jean
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Sep-27-17, 19:27
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I would suggest you get your vitamin D3 tested just to make sure you have an adequate amount. Living in a sunny place is not always enough. I get mine tested through Grassroots Health. It's online and they send you a test kit to mail back. Jean


I've used these guys before, would the vitamin D test here be the same or "good enough" ?

https://www.walkinlab.com/vitamin-d...st-profile.html
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-28-17, 03:33
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,340
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

As often happens, an answer to a question here weirdly shows up in my LC news feed : The Dark Side of Supplementation: More Cancer and Heart Disease?
By Michael Joseph, MSc - September 18, 2017 It is about vitamins, not as dire as the title indicates, but some interesting studies.

http://nutritionadvance.com/vitamin-supplementation
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-28-17, 04:39
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,269
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
As often happens, an answer to a question here weirdly shows up in my LC news feed : The Dark Side of Supplementation: More Cancer and Heart Disease?
By Michael Joseph, MSc - September 18, 2017 It is about vitamins, not as dire as the title indicates, but some interesting studies.

http://nutritionadvance.com/vitamin-supplementation


In order to adequately assess the effect of supplementation on various aspects of health as well as all cause mortality you need to know the form of the vitamin being supplemented (ie not all supplemented vitamin e's are equivalent) and you also need to know the diets of the people taking them, among other things. I just don't find this article very convincing. Certainly it would be preferable to get everything we need from the food we eat, but, of course, at the very least we would have to eat a truly healthy diet, not what is commonly recommended. I just think that the whole area of the safety and efficacy of supplementation has not received careful study.

Jean
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Sep-28-17, 06:18
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I've seen articles suggesting getting vitamins from food sources--like, fortified milk, fortified wheat, etc.--to avoid some of the risks shown in these vitamin supplementation studies.

The "evidence" vs. vitamin D is rubbish. Yes, there's such a thing as too much. But

Quote:
Another key point is that some studies place the ‘tolerable upper intake’ at 4,000 IU per day – yet we can easily buy 10,000 IU tablets (24, 25).


First, reference 24 is not a study, it's a government upper intake recommendation. And that limit was not set at 4000 because more than 4000 would be dangerous--there's a large buffer.

The reason there are 10000 IU doses available is because there have been a number of studies showing no ill effect when people take vitamin D at that level.

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/wha...they-justified/

Quote:
The upper limit (UL) for vitamin D, set by the 2011 Food and Nutrition Board, is 4,000 IU per day. This is defined as the highest level of daily consumption that causes no side effects in humans when used indefinitely without medical supervision.

The same board set the No Observed Adverse Effects Level (NOAEL) at 10,000 IU/day. The NOAEL is the dose at which there are no published studies showing any adverse effects of that dosage.


Reference 25 is about diseases and gene mutations that interfere with the kidney's ability to regulate levels of active vitamin D, even at levels of intake that would normally be safe. A weird choice for the point the author is trying to make.

All sides should be able to agree that at higher doses, actual measurement of serum vitamin d levels is warranted, that should satisfy both people worried about levels climbing too high and people worried they haven't gotten them high enough. My Dad did manage to get his vitamin D levels a little too high once while taking 10000 IU a day.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Sep-28-17, 06:47
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 873
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
Default

I'll state my bias up front - I'm huge into supplements. But, I've also had several pregnancies where I vomited around the clock for 5 to 7 months at a time. With my youngest son, I actually lost 40 pounds during the 28 weeks I was pregnant with him so the odds of me being deficient in lots of things were pretty high.

I'm a big believer in k2. I came to it because I was deficient in D3 and the doctor told me to supplement. As soon as I started taking D, I was on edge and couldn't sleep. I was displaying symptoms of D overdose. How could this be when I was supposedly so deficient? After researching, I found that if D doesn't help even if you're deficient, it's probably a k2 issue.

I had first tried the widely available mk-7 variety of k2 but found it gave me heart palpitations so I began to supplement the Mk4 variety of k2 and almost immediately felt better. The first thing I noticed was that within a week or two my teeth felt cleaner. Then I swear I could feel old injuries healing (I know that sounds crazy, but it's true). It was like the calcium was moving from places it didn't belong back into my bones.

Here's the k2 I take - it's 5 mg and I take it after every meal - so 2x to 3x a day (it's a lot when compared to the 100 microgams Ken is taking but I believe I need it). https://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Vita...ywords=mk4&th=1

edited to add: My dentist wanted me to start going every 3 months for a cleaning because so much plaque was building up. That issue is gone. I believe it's the k2. And while I haven't had a calcium scan, I believe what it's doing for my teeth, it's also doing inside my body.

Last edited by tess9132 : Thu, Sep-28-17 at 06:58.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Sep-28-17, 08:04
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

I'm another taking
Magnesium - 500mg per day
K2 (MK-7) - 100mcg per day (Note: I get the natural form of MK-4 through diet)
D3 - 5,000 IU per day
Fish Oil (Carlson) - a couple spoonfuls (not precise) per day

I know the magnesium helps, as I know if I don't take it and have an extensive workout, muscle cramps are the usual symptom. K2 research shows benefits, and I try to get my research from sources not selling K2. D3 is now believed to be helpful when one doesn't get enough sunlight, but it's less effective, so I try to get sun exposure often.

So, maybe supplements help or maybe I have more expensive urine, but there's always the placebo effect . . . My sense is that it's the former, and is why I continue with the supplementation.
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