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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 11:32
sara9683 sara9683 is offline
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Plan: LC
Stats: 239/217/185 Female 61 inches
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Default Coconut oil 'as unhealthy as beef fat'

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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 12:28
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
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Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/197.3/000 Male 72 inches
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I agree that coconut oil, beef tallow and butter are on par as far has health goes. Please, if you eat them, don't mix them with Grains, Potatoes or Sugars; poor health may result from this.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 13:21
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/274.0/175 Female 66 inches
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https://usat.ly/2sABZX7
Quote:
The Dietary Fats and Cardiovascular Disease advisory~reviewed existing data on saturated fat, showing coconut oil increased LDL ("bad") cholesterol~in seven out of seven controlled trials.

Because coconut oil increases LDL cholesterol, a cause of CVD [cardiovascular disease], and has no known offsetting favorable effects, we advise against the use of coconut oil," the American Heart Association said in the Dietary Fats and Cardiovascular Disease advisory.~

Frank Sacks, lead author on the report, said he has no idea why people think coconut oil is~healthy.

Before you trash your coconut oil, know that saturated fat is a loaded term. While the AHA warns against it, people who cut saturated fat out of their diet might not necessarily lower their heart disease risk, a 2015~BMJ review suggested. That's because some people fill the void with sugar, white flour and empty calories. Also, some fat is imyportant to help bodies absorb nutrients from other foods. Many have said butter has gotten a bad reputation.~
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 14:56
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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Location: Alberta
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The AHA would also advise you to have some "hearthealthy" Froot Loops instead.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 14:59
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/274.0/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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A new Fresh Market grocery opened near me this week and I went to take a look. They had both natural beef tallow and natural lard! I was so tempted, but I still have a lot of homemade lard that I rendered from a bunch of pig fat I bought from a local farmer.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 15:43
Zei Zei is offline
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Plan: Carb reduction in general
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News flash: Carrots as unhealthy as Spinach!
Okay, seriously. No health benefit to coconut oil? I thought lauric acid, which is half of what's in coconut oil, is antimicrobial which sounds like a healthy thing to me. Also yes, saturated fat does raise LDL by making small dense particles "big and fluffy" which might be better so far as disease risk is concerned. Saturated fat also raises HDL, the one people generally like to see be high. And the usual nothing-to-see-here-folks-move-on old time belief high LDL was supposed to cause heart disease. Plus safflower oil being promoted as a "healthy" vegetable fat. Olive oil, yes. Safflower oil? Yikes! Somebody please pass the coconut oil!
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 18:21
sara9683 sara9683 is offline
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Plan: LC
Stats: 239/217/185 Female 61 inches
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As a new convert to coconut oil, I laughed when I saw this article so I had to share
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 19:01
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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More of the saturated fat myth. Zoe Harcombe sets it straight:

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2009/10/...nsaturated-fat/
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 19:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
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Quote:
the average man should eat no more than 30g of saturated fat a day


I get in roughly four times that. Hope I'm okay. I don't feel congealed, but it's been pretty warm lately.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jun-16-17, 23:43
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Bintang Bintang is offline
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Plan: MyOwn:CHO<90g/d
Stats: 207/149/150 Male 169 cm
BF:40%/17%/18%
Progress: 102%
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I get in roughly four times that. Hope I'm okay. I don't feel congealed, but it's been pretty warm lately.


You are obviously not the 'average man' so you must be OK.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jun-17-17, 03:54
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JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,315
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Gary Taubes was asked to write a comment about the new AHA statement on Fat, and in his usual style, it was expanded into a long and brilliant response about the scientific method. Francis Bacon vs the "Bing Crosby epidemiology" used by the AHA aboard.


Vegetable oils, (Francis) Bacon, Bing Crosby, and the American Heart Association

The human understanding, once it has adopted opinions, either because they were already accepted and believed, or because it likes them, draws everything else to support and agree with them. And though it may meet a greater number and weight of contrary instances, it will, with great and harmful prejudice, ignore or condemn or exclude them by introducing some distinction, in order that the authority of those earlier assumptions may remain intact and unharmed.
–Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620


... [followed by description of AHA statement and the studies used to defend their long held views on saturated fats. Taubes call this...]

Quote:
A Scottish cardiologist/epidemiologist described this pseudoscientific methodology to me as “Bing Crosby epidemiology” – i.e., “accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative.” In short, it’s cherry picking, and it’s how a lawyer builds an argument but not how a scientist works to establish reliable knowledge, which is the goal of the enterprise. Not winning per se, but being right. It’s why I wrote in the epilogue of my first book on nutrition, Good Calories, Bad Calories, that I didn’t consider these people doing research in the nexus of diet, obesity and disease to be real scientists. They don’t want to know the truth; they only wanted to convince maybe themselves and certainly the rest of us that they already do and have all along. While all good science requires making judgments about what evidence is reliable and what isn’t, scientists have to do this keeping in mind that the first principle of good science, now quoting Feynman, “is that you must not fool yourself and you’re the easiest person to fool.” The history of science is littered with failed hypotheses based on selective interpretation of the evidence. Regrettably the AHA experts simply don’t believe that what’s true of far better scientists then themselves, could possibly be true of them as well.


Entire post at:

http://www.cardiobrief.org/2017/06/...rt-association/

Enjoy

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Jun-18-17 at 03:27.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jun-17-17, 05:39
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
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Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/197.3/000 Male 72 inches
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Progress: 42%
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Quote:
now quoting Feynman, “is that you must not fool yourself and you’re the easiest person to fool.” The history of science is littered with failed hypotheses based on selective interpretation of the evidence.

Thud quoting Taubes quoting Feynman...

This doesn't not bode well for us doing n=1 experimentation and interpreting the results if this is true and we're not good scientists. I'm not sure about you others but I'm a pretty terrible scientist. However, I have change the way I eat and a certain results have precipitated, I think, mainly on account of diet. Why or exactly How or Why, I'll leave to experts.

For now I'll continue to base my diet around saturated fat, basic above ground vegetables, a few nuts and meat and keep an ear to the ground, ready to consider convincing evidence that there may be a long term problem with this approach that's not evident today.

Anyway, off to warm in the morning sunrise in the Northern Hemisphere of planet Earth.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jun-17-17, 05:51
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
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Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
This doesn't not bode well for us doing n=1 experimentation and interpreting the results if this is true and we're not good scientists. I'm not sure about you others but I'm a pretty terrible scientist. However, I have change the way I eat and a certain results have precipitated, I think, mainly on account of diet. Why or exactly How or Why, I'll leave to experts.

For now I'll continue to base my diet around saturated fat, basic above ground vegetables, a few nuts and meat and keep an ear to the ground, ready to consider convincing evidence that there may be a long term problem with this approach that's not evident today.

Anyway, off to warm in the morning sunrise in the Northern Hemisphere of planet Earth.


The mistake we make as n=1 experimenters is to both believe everything we think (this is working and this is the reason why) and to then generalize our results to everyone else (because it worked for me it will work for you). n=1 experiments are valuable as long as you don't assume that you have discovered some universal truth. Even in the lofty realms of science n=1 experiments have revealed some important knowledge when done with extreme care and understanding but that does not mean our n=1 experiments fall into that category. So carry on but be cautious with how you interpret your results.

Jean
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jun-17-17, 06:24
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
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Location: Ontario
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Quote:
For these trials they carefully identify why these trials were critically if not fatally flawed, and so why their results cannot and should not be used in any reasonable assessment.


I think this is actually fair when vs. a claim, but not so much when taking a position. When the truth of things is up in the air, both sides can do this--and should listen to each other. Sometimes the null hypothesis should be no hypothesis. We can establish that there are situations where saturated fat does no harm--basically because there are unharmed populations (when it comes to diseases of civilization). Also that there are situations where polyunsaturated fat does no harm--the unharmed !Kung, at least until recently, based their diet on the mongongo nut, around 60 percent is the number I saw, and it's a nut that's typically high in omega 6. That can never show that these fats are always safe, paddling around in a half inch of water doesn't show the impossibility of drowning. On the other hand, we have epidemiology that shows that it's possible to eat these fats and get sick. I think the article that started this had a quote along the lines of "we don't know why traditional peoples can eat coconut and be fine, so prudence is to avoid coconut," okay, that's why I very much disagree with the brand of Paleo that shakes its head at "reenactment." It's possible to know the probable effect of a set of behaviours without knowing the exact mechanisms--this seems like probably a sort of learning with a long history, animals learn a string of behaviours, and then perhaps through error they'll skip a step, be surprised when they still get the desired effect, and stop doing the unnecessary step. Maybe a kick in the ego to revert to a sort of pre-sentient learning, but it's worked for billions of years, we'll probably need some of it for a bit longer.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Jun-17-17, 07:05
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/122/135 Female 62
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Progress: 112%
Location: Vermont
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Great article by Taubes. He has the audacity to suggest that science needs to be conducted, here it comes, scientifically, and with transparency.

Jean
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