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  #61   ^
Old Tue, Nov-28-17, 04:08
zoogirl's Avatar
zoogirl zoogirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,433
 
Plan: atkins 20
Stats: 127.6/104.0/110 Female 5' 2"
BF:
Progress: 134%
Location: Canada
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Well, I have read thru this thread, and I sort of hesitate to comment because I am still quiet new to this WOE, I would however, like to say, Hummmm, interesting....and if it works for you, I guess go for it....not sure I totally understand all of this, I'm not a Dr. or a nutritionist, certainly no expert, so I do not feel qualified to offer any info. Having said that, my answer would be both LC and exercise. PS, loved to video, lmao....

Have a positive day, ttyl
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  #62   ^
Old Tue, Nov-28-17, 09:11
zoogirl's Avatar
zoogirl zoogirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,433
 
Plan: atkins 20
Stats: 127.6/104.0/110 Female 5' 2"
BF:
Progress: 134%
Location: Canada
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PS, I just looked at Whirlly's profile page, and so correct me if I am wrong, have you been at this plan, zero carb for almost 3 years? did you start this as weight loss plan initially? Are you satisfied with the progress? Are you at your goal weight? Please understand it is none of my business, I was just curious?
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  #63   ^
Old Sat, Dec-02-17, 10:15
Blue Ruby Blue Ruby is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 315
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 200/179/160 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: Vancouver (the one in BC)
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And I would be interested in some of Whirly's science links, too. Along with Ci, I also have only read about all meat diets and health if you include lots of different organ meats, things like blood pudding, soft bones, bone broth too.
Ken, thanks for the summary of G Eades's presentation - very interesting.

On the LC diet vs exercise topic, I think optimally, it;s both for health. But for weight loss and mental energy, my experience has been that it's the way of eating that makes the biggest difference.
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  #64   ^
Old Sat, Dec-02-17, 11:08
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,743
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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I think it was someone on this forum who said that they dieted to attain their weight goal and look good in clothes and exercised to look good without clothes.

I lost all my weight through diet alone, but exercise helps improve or maintain health during maintenance. Both my parents had peripheral neuropathy, vascular insufficiency, sluggish lymphatic systems, and no muscle strength in their 80s and I hope to avoid that by eating LCHF & moving around.
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  #65   ^
Old Sat, Dec-02-17, 12:12
zoogirl's Avatar
zoogirl zoogirl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,433
 
Plan: atkins 20
Stats: 127.6/104.0/110 Female 5' 2"
BF:
Progress: 134%
Location: Canada
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I also wonder if Whirrlly has a family to consider, it sounds like a plan and way of life for a single person, but a lot to get around if you have a busy family for example children to care for and feed husband etc...just a thought...
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  #66   ^
Old Sat, Dec-02-17, 12:20
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,563
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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Maybe not, a lot of meals are more or less plain meat and a side of something, I get through a lot of meals by just eating the meat and salad or whatever other low carb veggies are around.
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  #67   ^
Old Sun, Dec-03-17, 07:46
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,563
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....hypothesis.html

Hey look, another on-topic post.

Peter looks at a study comparing activity in obese vs. lean, before and after weight change. The obese subjects move less, but still burn about 800 calories a day for activity, same as the lean subjects, before the obese folk lose weight or the lean gain. The obese subjects might be moving less, but they're working harder when they do move. They may be doing the same amount of work, but try walking a mile unweighted or half a mile carrying your bodyweight in a backpack, let me know what impresses you more.

Dieted down, the obese subjects did move less.

A common observation is that overweight people don't have slow metabolisms compared to lean. Another common observation is that they do have slower metabolisms when they're dieted down. There are also studies in the Pima showing reduced metabolism prior to weight gain. Reduced metabolism is an element both in preobese and postobese, is postobese a return to the preobese state? This fits with Pennington's idea that the fat mass increases until it supports a certain level of metabolism--the slow metabolism isn't a feature of fully developed obesity, it's involved in the development.

So, observations show exercise important to maintenance, is it exercise, or is it propensity to exercise, a symptom that the body's not trying to get fatter, maybe, as much as somebody else's might be, that's at work?
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  #68   ^
Old Sun, Dec-17-17, 12:04
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 11,563
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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http://itsthewooo.blogspot.ca/2017/...t-dopamine.html
Went to this article through the Scribblepad blog;
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...61229141901.htm

Quote:
Inactivity in obese mice linked to a decreased motivation to move


Lol at that title. Maybe the freaky thing here is that people not seeing the obvious actually makes this a meaninful statement instead of a truism. Comes down to the definition of "motivation" as a neurological/metabolic trait rather than a character/moral trait.

Quote:
Starting a regular program at the gym is a common New Year's resolution, but it's one that most people are unable to stick with for very long. Now a study done in mice is providing clues about one of the reasons why it may be hard for so many people to stick with an exercise program. The investigators found that in obese mice, physical inactivity results from altered dopamine receptors rather than excess body weight. The report appears in Cell Metabolism on December 29.

"We know that physical activity is linked to overall good health, but not much is known about why people or animals with obesity are less active," says the study's senior author Alexxai V. Kravitz, an investigator in the Diabetes, Endocrinology, and Obesity Branch at the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases -- part of the National Institutes of Health. "There's a common belief that obese animals don't move as much because carrying extra body weight is physically disabling. But our findings suggest that assumption doesn't explain the whole story."

Kravitz has a background in studying Parkinson's disease, and when he began conducting obesity research a few years ago, he was struck by similarities in behavior between obese mice and Parkinsonian mice. Based on that observation, he hypothesized that the reason the mice were inactive was due to dysfunction in their dopamine systems.

"Other studies have connected dopamine signaling defects to obesity, but most of them have looked at reward processing -- how animals feel when they eat different foods," Kravitz says. "We looked at something simpler: dopamine is critical for movement, and obesity is associated with a lack of movement. Can problems with dopamine signaling alone explain the inactivity?"

In the study, mice were fed either a standard or a high-fat diet for 18 weeks. Beginning in the second week, the mice on the unhealthy diet had higher body weight. By the fourth week, these mice spent less time moving and got around much more slowly when they did move. Surprisingly, the mice on high-fat diet moved less before they gained the majority of the weight, suggesting that the excess weight alone was not responsible for the reduced movements.

The investigators looked at six different components in the dopamine signaling pathway and found that the obese, inactive mice had deficits in the D2 dopamine receptor. "There are probably other factors involved as well, but the deficit in D2 is sufficient to explain the lack of activity," says Danielle Friend, first author and former NIDDK postdoctoral fellow.

The team also studied the connection between inactivity and weight gain, to determine if it was causative. By studying lean mice that were engineered to have the same defect in the D2 receptor, they found that those mice did not gain weight more readily on a high-fat diet, despite their lack of inactivity, suggesting that weight gain was compounded once the mice start moving less.

"In many cases, willpower is invoked as a way to modify behavior," Kravitz says. "But if we don't understand the underlying physical basis for that behavior, it's difficult to say that willpower alone can solve it."

He adds that if we begin to decipher the physiological causes for why people with obesity are less active, it may also help reduce some of the stigma that they face. Future research will focus on how unhealthy eating affects dopamine signaling. The researchers also plan to look at how quickly the mice recover to normal activity levels once they begin eating a healthy diet and losing weight.



Quote:
In the study, mice were fed either a standard or a high-fat diet for 18 weeks. Beginning in the second week, the mice on the unhealthy diet had higher body weight. By the fourth week, these mice spent less time moving and got around much more slowly when they did move. Surprisingly, the mice on high-fat diet moved less before they gained the majority of the weight, suggesting that the excess weight alone was not responsible for the reduced movements.


This seems to conflict with other studies where animals fed similar high-fat diets were protected from weight gain by voluntary exercise. Those studies use running wheels vs. no running wheels. But maybe this is another sort of resistance. Rodents enjoy running wheels, it might be more fun than plodding about the cage. Comparable to somebody needing to overcome food reward resistance with less subtle flavours, maybe it takes more pleasurable activity to tempt the animals to get moving.

Quote:
By studying lean mice that were engineered to have the same defect in the D2 receptor, they found that those mice did not gain weight more readily on a high-fat diet, despite their lack of inactivity, suggesting that weight gain was compounded once the mice start moving less.


This thread is long enough that I don't remember if I've mentioned this, though I probably have. There are studies with low-palatability food, with obese rodents and humans. Lean subjects tend to eat to maintenance, obese undereat and lose weight. So there's a parallel here, an actual lowered motivation for both food and exercise that might be gotten past with food or activity that gives a stronger signal. You could look at this as calories in/calories out, increased intake of more palatable foods, decreased exercise.

Sweet sensitivity is sometimes used as a measure of depression in animals, a given concentration of sugar will taste less sweet if the animal is depressed. At least, that's the assumption. Pure candy will still taste sweet. So a depressed person might not appreciate an apple, but might like ice cream. Classical depression came with a decrease in appetite and weight loss, today it's often looked at as causing weight gain--if the only foods you're capable of enjoying are fattening, it's pretty likely that you'll get fatter. Interesting to think how antidepressants that are fattening might fit into this.
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