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  #46   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 06:39
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
"I'll have what she's having"


too funny
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  #47   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 06:42
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
Neither eggs or dairy are zero carb. Not much (depending), but still some carbs.

Plant carbs are not protein carbs. They are not the same thing at all. A few small carbs from a protein based source will happen (as in liver etc) but doesn't count if one is eating true total zero carb food. Eggs and dairy are non-optimal zc food but many include it to expand their menu a bit more.
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  #48   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 06:48
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I still think I have an advantage here, though you might not concede it, in that I'm only claiming that there could be situations, where a higher level of ketosis is desirable, where some level of plant matter in place of some of the meat might be helpful. If what I'm up against is the argument that there is no possible situation where adding plants to an otherwise all meat diet is a good idea, that there is no beneficial to eat, very low carb plant on the planet--this is such an strong claim, what am I to do, start naming individual plants for you to reject?

Sorry if I'm straw-manning you, but that really does look like it's the position you've taken.


It is cool. I get ya. AND YOU ARE RIGHT in that I am saying there is not one plant on this planet you need to eat ever

AND this is the hard stance of a zero carb eater like me.

You can choose very low carb and have mostly meat protein and a few select veg you want to eat, sure, a so much better way to eat in life...absolutely, but as a person who thinks not one veg or plant matter never needs to be eaten and has actual negatives to eating them, then yea I am saying just that LOL

I really did science and research on the whole veg thing and even the science supports it. So I went for a zero carb lifestyle where one doesn't want or think plants are healthy in any way.

But it is ok cause I know this isn't a zc thread It was LC and activity.

It is ok to be a lc person. I find the science goes deeper and choose to follow the science of it into zc. I think any and all clean up of anyone's menu is a super important way to get thru life...no matter how we do it, a step into better always wins against the old worse SAD menu

I will let ya know when I throw the ribeyes on the grill.
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  #49   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 06:57
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
Whirlly - I am glad that 0 carb works so well for you. I have found a different route that works well for me. I stick to around 15 gms of net carbs per day. For me this is a simple way to eat and an enjoyable way to eat. I am healthy and happy and that's what counts. I seem to think more about micronutrients than some which is one of the reasons I prefer this way of eating to zero carb; it's easier to get the micronutrients. I can't eat either eggs or dairy. Both make me quite ill. So there you go, different needs different plans both working for what we each want. And I enjoy walking and miss it on the days that I can't walk outside for one reason or another.

Jean


I hear ya loud and clear Ya feel great who wants to monkey with that

My zero carb thinkins is you don't need any micronutrients cause zero carb eating gives your body total balance and nothing more than it wants. Body wants to live on protein and fat only and from there it does its own thing. Takes care of itself.

You can guess what micronutrients you think you need in any way. I mean come on, you just can't know. It is like treating an illness you think you might have.

Never not saying any and all cleaning up of the food in one's life is not a great thing. It 1billion% is

Zero carb knows that all plant matter eaten has a level of toxic to the body and can rob the body and if you read the science here as I have, (and then ya have to agree with it ), you follow into the zc plan and knowledge supporting it.


also tho zc is rough for many. Many 'need' sides with meals. Need the extra variety of meal planning and more where I am that meathound that slaps a giant rack of ribs on the grill and am finished. I require no ''leeway'' in my life because of, say, a vacation or family holiday. I want my zc food point blank, every meal, cause I believe in this lifestyle. I know some want that bigger variety and it fits their lifestyle.

It is all good. I just say as a zc who follows the science behind the veg etc...that pushes me into the zc zone. I fit here tho. Many can't do it and it would never fit their lifestyle. Absolutely everyone has to do their own thing!!

It is all cool for sure.
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  #50   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 07:49
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 3,515
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirrlly

You can guess what micronutrients you think you need in any way. I mean come on, you just can't know. It is like treating an illness you think you might have.



Of course it's just guessing. There's very little we know with complete certainty so we each base our practices on our best guesses and hope for the best. It's wise to do the research and pay careful attention to how our bodies react to what we are doing, in other words some guesses have a credible base and other less so, but when all is said and done all we can do is guess.

Jean
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  #51   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 08:25
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 1,969
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I eat meat and fat at every meal. I eat some vegetables at some meals. Of my normal 2 meals per day when not doing an extended IF, I typically have some vegetables at one of the meals. I've cut back considerably on the quantity. My N=1 experience is that a small portion of vegetables doesn't harm me, but I, like Jean, stay very strict low carb between 10-15 grams per day.

I attended a presentation by Dr. Georgia Ede last month where she compared meat and vegetables in a presentation titled "Plants vs. Animals." She summarized that meat had many health advantages over plants:

- Micronutrients
- Digestibility/ Colon Health
- Toxicity (less than plants)

Her final comparison was of "Only Animals" vs. "Only Plants"

Only Animals
- Every essential amino acid,
- Essential omega-3s
- Cholesterol
- Heme Iron
- True Vitamin A
- Every B vitamin
- Vitamin K2

Only Plants
- Fiber
- Glucose
- Fructose
- Sugar alcohols
- Antinutrients
- Natural toxins
- Spice, variety, texture, sweet

I'm not one to be strident over how I eat, as many people find that they need to discover what works for them. It's never one-size fits all for discovering an optimum way of eating. Zero carb certainly fits in this forum and there are days when I am zero carb. That being said, this is the War Zone, and opinions can be expressed strongly, hopefully with a modicum of respect to others who have different views. I don't mind excoriating those who promote unhealthy lifestyles who also have conflict of interests in that promotion, and that includes pharma, medical associations dependent upon funding, and the food industry. They are fair game. Those of us who contribute to this forum should never be a target in any circumstance.
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  #52   ^
Old Wed, Nov-22-17, 11:59
cshepard cshepard is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 357
 
Plan: Atkins - maintenance
Stats: 156/123/125 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: BC, Canada
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The only "science" I have read regarding eating only meat and fat is in regards to raw feeding dogs, however, common sense dictates to me that the same applies to humans. Meat, fat and bones alone are not a balanced diet for a carnivore. Organs must be included and not just liver. A wild carnivore will eat virtually everything including soft bones, marrow and the tripe (stomach lining) and all the partially digested plant matter and microbes clinging to it. So do the aboriginal peoples who consume this type of diet, and they also ferment a lot of game for storage. One can assume (and it is highly emphasized amongst raw feeders) that there are many essential nutrients for long term health that are found in these items. I do not believe humans can achieve long term health by eating only meat, fat and occasional liver.
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  #53   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-17, 11:03
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
Of course it's just guessing. There's very little we know with complete certainty so we each base our practices on our best guesses and hope for the best. It's wise to do the research and pay careful attention to how our bodies react to what we are doing, in other words some guesses have a credible base and other less so, but when all is said and done all we can do is guess.

Jean

not reallly ---a guess is just that when in a way you can go to a Dr for FULL blood panel and full vitamin and nutrient levels etc. of where your body is at, but most will never do that.

Guess work on what you think you are trying to fix can be just as harmful. It has and will be that way.

natural herbs, vitamins, minerals etc can do just as much harm to a body if ya don't know, but 'read a bit and guess' and take action, then ya take what big harmful benefits come your way or maybe ya guessed ok to not throw you off too bad and your body is still accepting your guess.

The body will never guess. It does as intended. By life and nature as it is a machine and has absolute science behind it. It does XYZ if you do ABC. Will your body ever do XYZ if you 'guess ABC', it might but it might not be the good thing you are thinking it is doing. How would one truly know down to a 'micr0-nutrient' level, you can't.

But if one is ok with this then it is what it is and OK for that person. We all find our way as we see fit with true science behind what we do or not. I get ya on what you are saying
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  #54   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-17, 11:06
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
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You said it Rob in that life is a total different situation for all.
We do as we see fit and being war zone we can 'chat true' science first and foremost' and it is real, fact etc....but in the end SO much comes into play in our lives that we must navigate thru it.
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  #55   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-17, 11:11
Whirrlly's Avatar
Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,673
 
Plan: Zero Carb!
Stats: 234/182/170 Female 68
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Southeast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cshepard
The only "science" I have read regarding eating only meat and fat is in regards to raw feeding dogs, however, common sense dictates to me that the same applies to humans. Meat, fat and bones alone are not a balanced diet for a carnivore. Organs must be included and not just liver. A wild carnivore will eat virtually everything including soft bones, marrow and the tripe (stomach lining) and all the partially digested plant matter and microbes clinging to it. So do the aboriginal peoples who consume this type of diet, and they also ferment a lot of game for storage. One can assume (and it is highly emphasized amongst raw feeders) that there are many essential nutrients for long term health that are found in these items. I do not believe humans can achieve long term health by eating only meat, fat and occasional liver.


Whoa so off base this post LOL

go research the truth. it is all out there, I can't even debate this cause it is just oh so wrong in the real truth of how the body works.

humans have lived long term on protein/fat only cause that is ALL the body requires to survive. Without protein/fat you die. Point blank. Why do ya think all the veggie loves must eat beans, add fat into their lives? cause they would croak on a non-protein, non-fat menu. And if you survive on protein plant based food you will get sickly and frail.

ok, just research way more on the truth out there in life and what the body requires to live is all I have to say on this one not fighting with ya but so ill informed it is scary thoughts like this that make me quiver.
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  #56   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-17, 11:58
cshepard cshepard is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 357
 
Plan: Atkins - maintenance
Stats: 156/123/125 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: BC, Canada
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So you have some reseach showing human cultures living long term healthy lives on only meat and fat, no organs, blood, bone, marrow or fermented animal products? Which cultures might those be? Please post some links, as I can't seem to find any online. In the meantime I will rely on the aforementioned common sense which dictates that the body needs some additional nutrients besides that found in pure muscle meat and fat, and that these nutrients are present in the rest of the animal that we are consuming.
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  #57   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-17, 21:34
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,076
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
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This is so funny - as well as to the point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8

Mods - move this to The Lighter Side if it doesn't belong here.
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  #58   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-17, 23:06
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,135
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Funny video, Bonnie. Just what we need to take the tension out of this thread.
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  #59   ^
Old Mon, Nov-27-17, 05:31
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 1,969
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
This is so funny - as well as to the point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8

Mods - move this to The Lighter Side if it doesn't belong here.

Hilarious and timely. Thanks, Bonnie. It belongs here.
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  #60   ^
Old Mon, Nov-27-17, 08:50
Just Jo's Avatar
Just Jo Just Jo is offline
A'72 Lifer Hard Core
Posts: 13,775
 
Plan: A'72 Induction Lifer + IF
Stats: 265/114/130 Female 5'4"
BF:Not so much now!
Progress: 112%
Location: South Central New Mexico
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Okay Imma gonna go back to the original question which is the title of this thread, right? "Low Carb or Activity for maintaining good health?"

For me personally, it would have to be both for the reasons many have stated before me.

I know that low carb & exercise is what helped me lose the weight and those 2 factors will continue to help me go kickin' and screamin' well into my 60s, 70s and beyond... B/c I wanna be in the best health possible.

That's my story and Imma stickin' to it!
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