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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Sep-30-16, 18:11
Ccat69's Avatar
Ccat69 Ccat69 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 468
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 163/133.2/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Upstate NY
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If you can't get your doctor to you give the results, I would personally get the second test and detailed results, but not let my doctor put me on meds yet.

It's your health and your choice. I agree that two weeks is ridiculous. I'd ask for at least three months and test again.

If you do that, at least you will know where you are and get some analysis on here.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Sep-30-16, 19:50
DelaneyLC's Avatar
DelaneyLC DelaneyLC is offline
Posts: 1,977
 
Plan: Atkins '72
Stats: 188/143/144 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 102%
Location: NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jude
I can get results directly from the lab, but I learned earlier today that its too late to get the details of the previous blood test, so would it make sense to go ahead and have the test next week? I'd rather not wait 6 months to find out what's really going on.


I really don't see how it can be too late to get your test results. Your doctor must have them in your records.
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  #18   ^
Old Sat, Oct-01-16, 10:08
jude's Avatar
jude jude is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 941
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 182/149/145 Female 65"
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Innisfil, Ontario
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Yes, my doctor would give me the last results, but at this point I won't understand the numbers, so I don't feel confident arguing with him. If you guys don't mind, I'd rather test again, get results from the lab, and then with your help, be able to go to my doctor with some knowledge. I'm determined not to take meds, but I want to work with him.
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  #19   ^
Old Sat, Oct-01-16, 10:30
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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You don't have to argue. Ask to have the results HANDED to you. And you could just say that you want to look them over.

FWIW, most labs don't only publish the results, they also publish what they consider to be "normal" (reference range). So you don't need to be a genius to figure that part out.

With blood lipids, what you'll learn is that, for example, it's NORMAL for total cholesterol and LDL to rise on a LCHF WOE, because, if your body is using fat for its energy, then it should, by logic, have more in the bloodstream, right? And the fat that it uses is LDL.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Oct-02-16, 19:18
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,752
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Go to Dietdoctor.com and watch all the videos on cholesterol.

Basically, most medical concern about cholesterol is bogus. Forget being tested again. Don't worry about your cholesterol number. Don't argue with your doctor. Find another one.

Standards of medical practice are very slow to change.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Oct-03-16, 02:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,315
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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DietDoctor is good, and Zoe Harcombe linked in post #5. To repeat what Barb wrote, Zoe Harcombe stated it as:

Quote:
Many of the comments start with people saying that they have high cholesterol. First of all – do you? Or are you part of the scam to make you think that your cholesterol is high because normal has been re-defined? This post may help: http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2014/06/...-longer-normal/

If your cholesterol is anywhere on those normal charts (2-10 mmol/l = 77-387 mg/dl) – you may like to stop worrying.

You should also be aware that the blood cholesterol test doesn’t actually measure LDL (the thing they call ‘bad cholesterol’ – which is not even cholesterol – it’s a Low Density Lipoprotein) – they guess it. See "we have got cholesterol wrong" http://www.zoeharcombe.com/the-know...mpletely-wrong/

You should also be aware that even the total cholesterol, which they do try to measure, is known to be out by as much as 19%.


If the doctor was only looking at total cholesterol, don't worry unless over 10, and "slightly" high would not be that. If it was LDL, read the two links on "new normals" or other threads in the Cholesterol forum.

The Trig/HDL ratio is useful to know and those two numbers should already be on your chart.

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2015/03/...-andor-statins/

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Oct-03-16 at 03:05.
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Oct-03-16, 08:16
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,187
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jude
Yes, my doctor would give me the last results, but at this point I won't understand the numbers, so I don't feel confident arguing with him. If you guys don't mind, I'd rather test again, get results from the lab, and then with your help, be able to go to my doctor with some knowledge. I'm determined not to take meds, but I want to work with him.

Stiffen your resolve, call the office and ask for the results. They'll be delighted to email or smail them to you, trust me. I do it all the time. I had one doctor that would mail all test results to me automatically. Loved it! I kept them in a binder for future reference. Now I just scan them to my cloud storage. LOL!
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  #23   ^
Old Tue, Oct-04-16, 03:40
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,315
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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As an aside for anyone who complains about the new law in the US requiring docs and hospitals to switch to electronic records, this is a wonderful benefit for patients who want to know their test results. I get an email the minute the blood work results hit my chart, likely before the doc checks it. I have 12 years of weights and other vitals taken anywhere in the health system (that's depressing ) it can be a pain to get records outside the system added, but even that is working better now. Can make and change appointments, send questions to doctor or nurse by email, see all sorts of results on line (for example, a hearing test and colonoscopy are there too) that I can then share with any other provider.
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  #24   ^
Old Tue, Oct-04-16, 19:49
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,060
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/174/175 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 102%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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My fasting LDL went up from 125 to 175! Am I as worried as my PCP? Not hardly, I am losing my Summer weight gain so fats will be in the bloodstream esp while fasting. I get another blood draw in 6 mo -- I expect it will be sterling by then. I am back on the same plan IF 24/1 as before, but I am two years older
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  #25   ^
Old Tue, Oct-04-16, 20:39
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 1,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I posted my results to an NMR Lipid Panel and other tests earlier today in the General Health forum, but it's relevant here today as well and relates to others' comments, including mike_d's. Note that I always have access to my test numbers, and my doctor provides a link for me to review them via email. I always get an NMR Lipid Panel with other tests, as I don't want to deal with estimates and an emphasis on Total Cholesterol, as it's a useless health marker. When I had my test done last year, I was fasted for about 60 hours at the time I had my blood drawn. The results showed my Total Cholesterol at 230. That's the highest level I've ever had and am usually well below that. Why was it high at that time? My metabolism was gorging itself on my body's fat stores, as that was my energy (food) while I was fasting. So, fat was mobilized in my blood stream. Last year I did the blood draw in a fasted state because I wanted to see what my numbers would look like when I was firmly in ketosis and consuming my own onboard pantry of energy. My HDL was good (63), my TGs were good as well (62), so I wasn't too concerned, but it got the medical experts excited because they thought they had a statin candidate among them.

I'd take the others' advice seriously and find a doctor who understands fat metabolism and is aware of the most recent findings about measuring blood lipids. There are more and more out there who are adapting to this new way of thinking.

For anyone interested, my post #25 with the results of my most recent blood tests is in General Health: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...t=467687&page=2

This time, I did the usual fasting required from the previous evening meal, about 15 hours, and the results are very different than the tests from last year when I was in a prolonged fast.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Tue, Oct-04-16 at 20:49.
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  #26   ^
Old Tue, Oct-04-16, 21:20
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,060
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/174/175 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 102%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Fasting makes your LDL go up. "Butter makes your pants fall off" Google it.
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  #27   ^
Old Thu, Oct-06-16, 12:27
jude's Avatar
jude jude is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 941
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 182/149/145 Female 65"
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Innisfil, Ontario
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So I went and had blood tests yesterday (call me a wuz). As expected, I have no idea what the numbers mean. I'd really appreciate it if you guys could give me a heads up before I go to see the doctor. (His office has already called to get me to make an appointment.)

Hours After Meal 7 Hours
Triglyceride 1.42 mmol/L
Cholesterol 7.29 mmol/L
HDL Cholesterol 1.54 mmol/L
Non HDL Cholesterol 5.75 mmol/L

Non HDL-Cholesterol is not affected by the fasting status of the patient.

LDL Cholesterol 5.10 mmol/L

LDL-C calculation is decreased if fasting < or = 10 hours. Consider the Non HDL-C value as an alternate lipid target if monitoring treatment in intermediate or high risk patients.

Cholesterol/HDL Cholesterol 4.7
Lipid Target Values Lipid Target Values should be based on patient 10 year CVD risk Assessment.

! High or Intermediate CVD risk
-----------!-----------------------------------
Primary ! LDL-C < or = 2.0 mmol/L OR Tx target ! > or = 50% decrease in LDL-C
!
Alternate ! Non HDL-C < or = 2.6 mmol/L OR Tx target ! ApoB < or = 0.8 g/L
-----------!-----------------------------------
! Low CVD risk
-----------!-----------------------------------
Primary !> or = 50% decrease in LDL-C Tx target !
-----------------------------------------------
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  #28   ^
Old Thu, Oct-06-16, 14:04
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,315
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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To help others like myself from the US thinking in mg these are:
Trig 125
Cholesterol 282
HDL 60
LDL 197
Trig/HDL ratio: 2.1

First as Zoe Harcombe wrote, unless it is over 10mmlo, your total is not "high" at 7.29. In fact, for older women, a higher cholesterol number is protective.
The Trigs could be lower on a strict LC diet, but they are perfectly "normal" on a regular lab range. Your HDL or good cholesterol is a good level now, the longer you stay LC it may get even better, but HDL rises slowly. A ratio around 2 is very good. The doctor must be focused on the LDL.

Zoe Harcombe again on LDL : http://www.zoeharcombe.com/the-know...mpletely-wrong/

And if he brings up statins, here are her answers to a 70 yo woman in the comments on above blog post:

Try this http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2015/03/...-andor-statins/

1) Ask your consultant for any evidence of benefit of statins in women
2) Ask your consultant to read you the bit from the patient leaflet that cautions against statins in anyone over 70 (https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/2498)
3) Ask your consultant to explain the consistent evidence for HIGH cholesterol and longevity in the elderly – this being the most recent and comprehensive study https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/381654
4) Ask your consultant to explain these charts for all 192 countries in the world http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2010/11/...what-you-think/
5) Ask your consultant to justify the serious side effects weighed up against a potential 3 day gain for the highest risk group (which isn’t you) if you take statin for 5 years… http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/9/e007118.full


I wouldn't give these numbers a second thought, and certainly never consider statins, but read these articles to be prepared for that suggestion.
One test to insist upon would be the CAC if the doctor wishes to push it.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=471526

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Oct-06-16 at 15:50.
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  #29   ^
Old Thu, Oct-06-16, 14:14
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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The most important value is the ratio of triglycerides to HDL, which should be less than 2:1. Yours is less than 1:1, which is excellent.

Your other numbers are being affected by the fact that you are actively using your own body's fat for fuel. If you are using fat for fuel, where will that fuel be found? In the bloodstream, of course! As you are actively losing weight, the amount of fat in the bloodstream is higher. When you get closer to goal, it will drop.

My TC and LDL were always pretty low. But last November, they were both "slightly high", although, as yours, my trig to HDL ratio was less than 1:1, and I was pretty happy about the whole thing.

Whatever you do, do NOT get on statins: they are terrifically dangerous, and much too readily prescribed.

Ken (krussva) had really high readings of TC and LDL, about a year ago, and started adding a lot of fiber to his diet. By his next reading, the values had normalized.

What he did was to lower, a bit, animal fat and change it to vegetable, and eat a one minute muffin made with flax seeds daily.

The only downside to that that I can see is that the long term results of lowering cholesterol by changing the type of fats eat or statins seems to be an increase in CVD, not a decrease. Ansel Keys and his fellow researchers at my alma mater, the University of MN, did a study on that back in the late 60's, early 70's, and conveniently "forgot" to add that rather crucial piece of data to their findings.
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Oct-06-16, 15:41
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,187
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

>>Hours After Meal 7 Hours

I thought you're supposed to do it after fasting for 12 hours. Anyway, that will raise some of your numbers.
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