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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Sep-09-16, 12:44
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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Posts: 2,534
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 170/135/120 Female 62 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 70%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default Do you trust the medical profession?

Those of us who have been around for a while have watched the medical profession change like the four seasons. Sometimes coffee is bad for you, sometimes good. So it goes with most of the things we eat and drink.

For at least 50 years, the SAD has been the recommended way to eat and stay healthy. This has led us to the diabesity epidemic sweeping across, not just the USA, but the Westernized World.

This morning The Guardian had an article rebuking people for no longer taking Statins, claiming "Statins prevent 80,000 heart attacks and strokes a year in UK." The article claims "Study in Lancet says risk of side-effects has been exaggerated and controversy will cause 2,000 extra heart attacks and strokes over next decade."

I just found another article which for me is truly frightening.New Test Could Detect Cancer 10 Years Before Symptoms Show "This blood test to screen for cancer can easily be administered as part of a visit to the patientís primary care provider. Early detection makes for easier prevention."

Will this test be optional? Or must we submit our blood and, if we are diagnosed, live in fear (and at great cost monetarily for Pre-treatment) for 10 years waiting for what the test tells us is The Inevitable Cancer?

Call me paranoid, but my trust that the medical profession is working in my best interests is sorely degraded. As it is, Medicare levies 20% of the costs of Chemo against the patient. What will they find to charge us for a Pre-Pre-existing case of Cancer?
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Sep-09-16, 12:50
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,189
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

With some things, yes. Definitely not with nutrition advice though.

Quote:
Will this test be optional? Or must we submit our blood and, if we are diagnosed, live in fear (and at great cost monetarily for Pre-treatment) for 10 years waiting for what the test tells us is The Inevitable Cancer?

I think that's an unnecessary fear. There are no required medical tests and unless it is a pandemic there's no real good reason to do it.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Fri, Sep-09-16 at 12:56.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Sep-09-16, 16:53
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

I trust them, within limits, to find out what's wrong when there is something wrong.

I do not trust them to tell me what to eat or how to act, in order to stay healthy. Even worse, I don't trust them to tell themselves what to eat or how to act, in order to stay healthy.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Sep-10-16, 10:25
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 9,877
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/162/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: USA
Default

What are they good at? That is what we must ask ourselves.

Techno-wizardy like surgery has made immense strides since anesthetic was discovered in 1846. But this leads to surgical interventions, like cardiac bypass surgery, which does little good and can cause harm.

Don't get me wrong: there's never been a better time to recover from falling in a combine, heaven forbid. Reattaching limbs, arthroscopic surgery, and delicate eye operations are all possible now, and that is great! But there is very little surgery can do for the great scourge of our time, metabolic disorder.

Pharmacuetically medicine is like a bombed out city. There's some buildings where people can shelter, but rubble is far more common. Discoveries like insulin and antibiotics gave rise to the "magic bullet" theory of disease; that we can come up with a "pill for every ill." But this is currently aimed far more at managing symptoms than it is actually curing the patient, and has become a cesspit of heedless profit seeking and disregard for highly serious side effects. They prefer to throw yet another pill at the problem, which creates elderly people on a dozen medications and probably not needing any of them.

I had an appointment with a "top" endocrinologist associated with a medical college; and within ten minutes of our discussion he had dismissed all my symptoms, ignored my charts and lists, and wanted to put me on Lipitor, Ambien, and Prozac immediately. No testing, no listening, no actual assessment of what I really needed.

Which leads me to another common problem: their diagnostic skills often suck. They have become so wedded to their blood chemistry printouts they won't listen to the patient. And what is so stupid about that is:
  • how much these baselines vary by the lab which performs them and what country they are in
  • how much the values vary according to what they measure, like blood, saliva, or urine
  • how no one pays enough attention to how they can change from day to day, time of day, and what someone last ate
  • how unscientifically these baselines were often arrived at, like "thirty young white male medical students in probable good health" and this tiny, skewed sample is now used for everyone!

I'm grateful for modern medicine, which has certainly saved my life a couple of times. In the middle ages that infected tooth, case of pneumonia, and kinked kidney artery would have probably doomed me. But that let me live long enough to become prone to things they handle very badly indeed.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Sep-10-16, 12:26
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 1,786
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

With the ACA in force in the United States, I'm very suspicious of those who purport to know nutrition, particularly those who assemble the mythology of the Dietary Guidelines for Americans. The intersection of that activity and the ACA Standards of Care is becoming a reality. When one who has a series of symptoms that make him or her a candidate for statins based on today's criteria and refuses the medication, I'm suspicious of the notes in the patient's file that could undermine the ability to continue to qualify for insurance. When one who is a diabetic decides to go low carb, high fat to eliminate symptoms and does not follow a SAD like MyPlate at the recommendation of his or her medical professionals, I'm suspicious for the same reason. What it appears to be coming to is that I'm reluctant to volunteer anything to my doctor, as I don't want additional notes in my online file, which everyone has now. After reviewing my file in the past year, I read about things from years ago that I no longer have, but those things been dutifully recorded in my record. It's as if I have a health history longer than my arm, and nowhere does it note that conditions or symptoms have resolved. Wow! Therefore, I will not volunteer any information to the medical professionals in my life. They are now there for emergency situations, only. As for wellness and preventive medicine, I've made the decision that I'm better off on my own.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Sep-10-16, 13:17
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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Posts: 2,534
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 170/135/120 Female 62 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 70%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

I, too, feel safer "on my own." My life has been relatively clear of doctors: The requisite (at the time) tonsillectomy at age 6 and a hysterectomy at age 36. Otherwise, my health has been handled by me, Dr. Atkins, and various accupuncturists and chiropractors.

Last May, when I had actual need of a medical doctor and the Medicare System to help me urgently, I was left pretty much on my own. Ignored, misdiagnosed and misdirected. Finally referred to a specialist, I got relief, but it took 4 months.

I wish I could say that I trust my good health to the system, but evidence shows me the system is broken.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-16, 02:55
nifty55's Avatar
nifty55 nifty55 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 96
 
Plan: Eric Westman Ketogenic
Stats: 294/220/130 Female 5' 6"
BF:plenty
Progress: 45%
Location: YORKSHIRE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
They are now there for emergency situations, only. As for wellness and preventive medicine, I've made the decision that I'm better off on my own.


Completely agree with that!

And Bluesinger - I see a naturopath for the same reasons.

Stella
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-16, 05:40
liddie01's Avatar
liddie01 liddie01 is offline
Butter is Better!
Posts: 5,894
 
Plan: Atkins OWL
Stats: 234/220.4/160 Female 5"8.5"
BF:its back again!
Progress: 18%
Location: Mount Carmel, Pa.
Default

I just had a hysterectomy last week, I am happy that is was done robotically with less cutting and recovery time. I recently changed drs, because the one I had kept pushing statins, which I wouldn't take. My workplace checks my numbers and always says my good cholesterol is high and bad is low and triglycerides are low, but he never cared, just wanted me on drugs. so far so good with the brand new woman, she did the ekg for my surgery and my heart is good, but will run bloodwork next month, on my thyroid, hormones, and vitamin levels, and seems to be more concerned about my overall health. but still in the end my decisions are still mine.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-16, 08:06
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liddie01
but still in the end my decisions are still mine.


If more patients realized this, AND educated themselves on the dangers of statins, etc, the guidelines would not matter a whit. Because too many patients would be saying, "No. Look at the differential, Doctor. My cholesterol is actually excellent."
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-16, 08:17
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,189
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
With the ACA in force in the United States, I'm very suspicious of those who purport to know nutrition, particularly those who assemble the mythology of the Dietary Guidelines for Americans. The intersection of that activity and the ACA Standards of Care is becoming a reality.

Don't blame it on the ACA. This started long before. Clinics would fire doctors that didn't run specific tests and administer specific treatments because it left them open to possible lawsuits, they felt. If you can point to something and say, "This is how everyone is doing it. Sorry it didn't work for you." That is just covering your butt.

If an entire industry is wrong, who do you sue?
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-16, 10:06
jbmoore's Avatar
jbmoore jbmoore is offline
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Posts: 3,153
 
Plan: Low carb and hCG
Stats: 187/180/145 Female 5 feet 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 17%
Default

And....as for 'scientific studies,' I just read an article that said back in the 1960's, the sugar industry paid big bucks to scientists to skew the evidence to 'prove' that sugar is good, fat is bad.

Medicine, like politics, is all up for sale. Certain drugs-a-la-mode are pushed on us by doctors because they get something in return from the pharma companies.

Research everything. I find that herbs, spices, botanicals, etc., are every bit as effective as pharmaceuticals for most common ailments, and without the side effects.

I know. I'm cynical. Unless it's an emergency, stay out of the doctor's office.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-15-16, 04:00
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,206
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

No, I don't trust the medical profession from personal experience, not that I have experience with statins or cancer.

In the case of statins, the premise is wrong, therefore the treatment is wrong. In the case of cancer test, still doesn't tell us the cause so it's unlikely to have any effect on the development of cancer, only that it tells us cancer is likely to occur.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Sep-15-16, 06:25
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,773
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Default

Do I trust the medical profession?

In a word, no. I don't. There is a treatment bias to the medical profession. They really aren't interested in understanding what is wrong with a patient. They are totally uninterested in understanding what caused it. They are interested in how to treat "what is indicated" to the point that they will apply a treatment, see if it works and then decide after the fact what was truly wrong.

I liken it to a mechanic with a wall of parts. You bring your car in complaining of something. He listens for a bit, gets in the car, does some diagnostics to the point that he has an idea of what part on the wall to grab. He installs that part and sees if it makes it better. If it does then that must have been the problem. If it doesn't then you still get the bill.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Sep-15-16, 07:06
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,206
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Inflammabl, the way you put it is exactly how I see it too.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Sep-15-16, 08:57
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
Default

No, I don't trust the medical profession. I've had many problems with them over the years, and as a nurse also saw how little they know, and in some, how little they care. I've also seen arrogance and 'tradition' (we've always done it this way) get in the way of patient care on many occasions.

My most recent experience was with a cardiologist, who though eventually showed some humanity and skills, initially disregarded the symptoms I was describing and attributed some symptoms to 'obesity related problems'. That was until he did the echocardiogram and ecg. He was more competent than the other doctors I've seen, but that's not a very high bar. However, if a diagnosis had relied on listening to his patient, he would have failed miserably.

I'd been trying to get a GP to listen about my symptoms and do something for over a year now. I was eventually listened to, but by a nurse who was triaging due to a shortage of doctors, and arranged a blood test that confirmed heart failure. The echo then confirmed something more serious as well. But none of this would have been discovered if it had been solely down to the GP's to listen.
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