Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Fri, May-06-16, 03:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,953
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

New low,yes, Marty has meals, click the menu, here are some recipes again for various goals. https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...s-for-fat-loss/
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Sat, May-07-16, 19:16
marty kend marty kend is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: low insulin load
Stats: 105/95.4/96 Male 186
BF:
Progress:
Default

newloc there are some diabetic friendly meals at https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...tional-ketosis/ if you're insulin resistant or https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...s-for-fat-loss/ if you have good blood glucose but just need to lose weight. These food lists are similar https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...2/cheat-sheets/
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Sun, May-08-16, 11:13
newlowc newlowc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 451
 
Plan: Bernstein/Atkins
Stats: 275/265/190 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 12%
Location: SOCAL
Default

Thanks Janet and Marty! I think I will get a blood test this week to check my insulin level.
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Mon, May-09-16, 07:11
voguesd voguesd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 31
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 237/140/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 91%
Default

Is there a certain goal of insulin load we should shoot for? As in, I was thinking we need to focus on the foods that have the lowest insulin load results. And is there an insulin load # that were should try to stay under? Another poster asked if we needed to look at the higher numbers.
So, I have myself really confused now. I've been reading Marty's blog as well since last weekend and couldn't find a reference # to use as a guide. Of course it's probably right there and I'm not seeing it. Planning on printing off his info and calculations, and start doing some math.
Any help would be appreciated greatly.
Thanks for the discussion on this article.

And I also want to send out a big Thank You to Marty for his research on this topic. A key component for us that is another game changer in our health quest journeys.

Last edited by voguesd : Mon, May-09-16 at 07:32.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Mon, May-09-16, 12:48
newlowc newlowc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 451
 
Plan: Bernstein/Atkins
Stats: 275/265/190 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 12%
Location: SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voguesd
Is there a certain goal of insulin load we should shoot for? As in, I was thinking we need to focus on the foods that have the lowest insulin load results. And is there an insulin load # that were should try to stay under? Another poster asked if we needed to look at the higher numbers.
So, I have myself really confused now. I've been reading Marty's blog as well since last weekend and couldn't find a reference # to use as a guide. Of course it's probably right there and I'm not seeing it. Planning on printing off his info and calculations, and start doing some math.
Any help would be appreciated greatly.
Thanks for the discussion on this article.

And I also want to send out a big Thank You to Marty for his research on this topic. A key component for us that is another game changer in our health quest journeys.


Right! Sounds simple but I can't figure it out.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Tue, May-10-16, 02:42
marty kend marty kend is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: low insulin load
Stats: 105/95.4/96 Male 186
BF:
Progress:
Default

newlowc your target will be personalized for you and your situation. Similar to the way that some people find they do well with 50g carbs and other need to cut back to 25g of carbs. The simplest way might be to track where you're currently at and look to wind it back down until you're getting results you're after. In the comments Patricia notes that 50 to 70 keeps her BGs stable.

From the insuin load article "The appropriate insulin load will vary from person to person. A small woman aiming for weight loss using a lower protein ketogenic approach might have an insulin load as low as 40g per day while a larger man looking who is active and looking build muscle might have an insulin load as high as 300g per day."
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Wed, May-11-16, 06:10
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 12,109
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

Something along the lines of Atkins' carb ladder might be a good way to go. I believe I've read somewhere that in the days before insulin, when fasting was used in diabetes, something similar was done with low carb food, they'd fast people until glucose disappeared from the urine, and then slowly ramp up until it reappeared, and back off again. Basically, undereat until blood glucose is under control, and then add ten grams of protein per day or week or what not, until blood glucose starts to climb--and then back off.

It wouldn't have to start at zero, you could just use some basis for calculating minimum protein needs, eat that for a while, and assuming that you respond well and like where your blood sugar is, start ramping up from there.

I'd ramp up with just protein at first, just to simplify things. If you started at 70 grams as a reasonable protein requirement, and found things copacetic up to the 140 grams of protein mark, then you could back off on the protein, replacing up to half of it with the insulin load equivalent level of carbohydrate.

Of course this is an ideal world where changing stress levels etc. aren't throwing in added variables.
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Wed, Jun-01-16, 04:38
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,953
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Marty has a new blog post about "Getting the right-sized low carb band-aid". Great summary of all his ideas in the insulin index and nutrient density, list of foods for different goals, etc.

https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...-carb-band-aid/

( long article, iPad not letting me copy, but the section that intrigues me is "I've hit a plateau on low carb, now what)

His suggestions on the approach to take if still not at weight goal is something I go back and forth about...should I add or subtract fat at this point? Woo's post *** a while back about formerly obese people actually being insulin sensitive (and I think it was Bill Lagokos and Amy Berger said similar) has been bugging me for months (my fasting insulin scores are very low, and The only time I reached 160 was doing a LFLC diet). Maybe fat is no longer my friend


*** I'll save you from reading her rude rants...this is the part that may apply to above:
"Jimmy insists he is fasting "to repair IR". Has he even VALIDATED that he is IR? It seems another thing he does not understand about obesity: it is a NORMAL AND EXPECTED observation of weight reduced patients to have crap metabolism secondary to insulin supersenstivity. Low levels of postprandial insulin can and will : depress FFA , fat oxidation (+ketogenesis) and facilitate greater storage of fat, within the weight reduced. The weight reduced are not insulin resistant, they are pathologically insulin supersensitive, specifically at the adipocyte. Jimmy's ongoing / years long insistence that he is "severely insulin resistant" is likely completely untrue, based in a total ignorance of the physiology , the neuroendocrine regulation of body weight. The post obese and weight reduced have an abnormal sensitivity to insulin, not a resistance. The primary defect is leptin signalling thus fat oxidation and sympathetic deficits."

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jun-02-16 at 03:53.
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Wed, Jun-01-16, 05:05
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 12,109
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

Yes. Chris Gardner suggests that if insulin resistant people lose better on low carb, but insulin sensitive people can do as well on a higher carb approach, then if you can first address insulin resistance through weight loss, the person could move over to a higher carb diet once they were more insulin sensitive. Woo goes in the other direction--fat cells become more insulin sensitive as well, a person who's insulin sensitive to start with may have a different kind of insulin sensitivity than somebody who gained it through weight loss.

I think another thing to consider here is hypoglycemia. One side effect of weight loss surgery is hypoglycemia--which to me begs the question of whether this hypoglycemia is a new thing for the person involved, or more of a latent hypoglycemia that had been hidden/prevented by the insulin resistance that accompanied obesity.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Sun, Sep-04-16, 06:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,953
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
If we only consider insulinogenic properties of food there is a risk that we unnecessarily demonise nutrient dense foods that happen to elicit an insulin response. Rather than avoiding insulin, I think it’s better to think in terms of investing a limited insulin budget. And just like different people have different levels of income, different people have a different (but still finite) “insulin budget”. For example…

-Someone using therapeutic ketogenic approach to battle epilepsy or cancer will want to minimise the insulin load of their diet by eating very high amounts of fat, fasting, and perhaps supplementing with MCTs or exogenous ketones.

-Someone pursuing therapeutic ketosis will need to pay particular attention to making sure they obtain adequate nutrition within their very small insulin budget.

-If you have Type 1 Diabetes large doses of insulin will send you on a blood glucose roller coaster that might take a day or two to get under control. Eating a Bernstein-esque low carb diet with moderate to high protein levels and lots of non-starchy veggies will make it possible to manage blood glucose levels with physiologic (normal) amounts of insulin without excessive blood glucose and insulin swings.[1] [2]

-For a type 2 diabetic who struggles to produce enough insulin to maintain their blood glucose in normal ranges, a lower carb moderate insulin load diet will help their pancreas to keep up and achieve normal blood glucose levels while minimising fat storage.
People using a ketogenic approach for weight loss need to keep in mind that reduced insulin levels and ketosis occurs due to a lack of glucose and not higher levels of dietary fat.

-If your primary goal is weight loss, fat on the plate (or in the coffee cup) should be just enough to stop you from going insane with hunger. Too much dietary fat will mean that there will be no need to mobilise fat from the body.

-Athletes and people who are metabolically healthy can be more flexible in their choice of energy source and perhaps focus more on more nutrient dense foods as well as energy dense foods.


https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...e-on-nutrition/

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Sep-04-16 at 06:32.
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Mon, Aug-14-17, 03:46
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,953
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Marty re-posted his all-time mother of all lists for all foods for all goals. If you haven't seen this before, or haven't opened and saved the .pdf that applies to your goals, give this one another look.

https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...2/cheat-sheets/

Quote:
It’s no secret that there is no perfect diet for everyone. Your nutritional requirements depend on many factors, including your age, health status, activity levels, and goals.

I’ve spent a lot of time over the last couple of years designing prioritised food lists to suit a range of goals and situations. This article summarises this labour of love into what I hope will be a useful resource that will help a lot of people.
I have grouped the various food lists into the following categories:

1. foods to optimise your metabolic health (e.g. therapeutic ketosis, diabetes management, weight loss, bodybuilding, and athletic performance, etc.),
2. foods that boost specific nutrients associated with common health conditions,
3. ethical, philosophical and religious considerations, and
4. macronutrient and micronutrient extremes (low carb, keto, high protein, low protein, etc.).

For those of you who just want to know which foods you should eat more of, I have included the food lists up front.
If you want to understand how I have developed the various food lists, continue reading to the end of the article.


Thanks again, Marty!
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Mon, Aug-14-17, 04:25
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,086
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Very helpful for tailoring one's WOE to an objective. Having a list of whole foods categorized by types allows one to vary meal composition and never get bored with eating the same thing. Thanks to Marty and to Janet for linking the information to the forum!!!
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Mon, Aug-14-17, 13:25
TucsonBill's Avatar
TucsonBill TucsonBill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 339
 
Plan: ≤ 20 carbs & IF
Stats: 292/235/170 Male 72 Inches
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Tucson, AZ
Default

Kinda depressing to read about these folks who went on low carb diets and didn't lose weight. I thought it was simple:

Don't eat any carbs = weight loss.

Now I see its not that simple for many folks. I hope it works for me.
Reply With Quote
  #29   ^
Old Mon, Aug-14-17, 14:50
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 3,854
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonBill
Kinda depressing to read about these folks who went on low carb diets and didn't lose weight. I thought it was simple:

Don't eat any carbs = weight loss.

Now I see its not that simple for many folks. I hope it works for me.


For most of us it is pretty simple so don't start off depressed and discouraged. Sometimes you have to tweak things to make it work more efficiently for you, but a real food low carb diet works better then the S(tandard)A(merican)D(iet) or SAD. It is always possible to become healthier.

Jean
Reply With Quote
  #30   ^
Old Mon, Aug-14-17, 23:01
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 8,425
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonBill
Kinda depressing to read about these folks who went on low carb diets and didn't lose weight. I thought it was simple:

Don't eat any carbs = weight loss.

Now I see its not that simple for many folks. I hope it works for me.


For me it was learning what foods had more or less carbs.
We can pretty much guess that all of the whites are the highest carb counts like rice, potatoes, bread, pasta but if you want to eat a wide variety, more than just meat, it's good to have a carb counter of some sort. I like it in book form because I can just flip back and forth and mix and match what will add up to the carb count I want.

Lots of the old Atkins books have a carb counter in the back section. I also found a little pocket sized carb counter. Find them used for $1 at thrift shop or on Amazon.

Carbs hide in so many places like in sauces, dressings, imitation cheese, along with sugar which is in some processed meats, so it's good to read the labels and choose the ones that have those lowest carb count.

If you have the right food on hand, you will succeed, easily!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:17.


Copyright © 2000-2018 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.