Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76   ^
Old Fri, Mar-18-16, 06:09
SheMac SheMac is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Atkins or Kimkins
Stats: 192/148/128 Female 64 inches
BF:
Progress:
Default

I believe it was either Dr. Fung or Butter Bob Briggs who said that LCHF was the treatment and Fasting was the cure of insulin resistance. Also said was that LCHF makes the fasting easier.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #77   ^
Old Fri, Mar-18-16, 15:20
amergin's Avatar
amergin amergin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 267
 
Plan: Low carb, suff. protein
Stats: 115/103/95 Male 191cm
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: dublin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser

One thing I think could be a factor--that glucagon that didn't decrease, it's possible that the effect of glucagon on the liver's blood glucose production is partly driven by the liver's capacity to produce glucose. In a prolonged fast, the rate of gluconeogenesis is substrate-driven, as protein and carbohydrate metabolism decrease through the fast in favour of fat, availability of amino acids for glucose production decreases.

None of this says that glucagon isn't a good target for intervention, if you could find a way to do it, it would bring down glucose, that would bring down insulin.

Also, none of my babbling really detracts from Dr. Fung's statement that it's the insulin, stupid--because failure of glucagon to decrease with the carbohydrate feeding is likely due to insulin resistance by some cell or other--either the cells that themselves produce glucagon, or the cells that produce other hormones etc. that drive glucagon release.


Teaser are you familiar with this bit of info from Prof Roger Unger.

http://diabeticmediterraneandiet.co...diabetes-model/
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjQkqFSdDOc

He proposes a mechanism for the failure to lower glucagon appropriately and suggests it's a bigger issue than heretofore acknowledged.
Doesn't give a definite solution but may identify a mechanism, which is a first step.
Reply With Quote
  #78   ^
Old Fri, Mar-18-16, 15:50
googily googily is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Mod carbs
Stats: 245/195.8/176 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Default

Hi, add me to the list of people who've dipped a toe into IF. I just kind of decided on Monday to not eat breakfast until I really felt hungry, which didn't happen until 1 pm. I ate about 650 calories, then wasn't hungry again until dinner. I've since gone 18:6 every day (2 meals and one small snack) this week, and wow, I can't believe how well I'm responding to it. I feel great, and even though I do get hungry (like right now ), it's such a different hunger from carby hunger, I can just tell myself that dinner is in 90 minutes, and drink more water.

I definitely like being full after a meal, instead of just "well, I guess I need to stop now."

I'm down 1.5 lbs since Monday--I think I was in a bit of whoosh anyway after about six weeks of not really getting anywhere, but I'm now at a weight I haven't been at in 14 years. And I can't imagine this is related, but two years of terrible back trouble relented about 36 hours ago--not completely cured, but so so much better.

I'll be lurking....
Reply With Quote
  #79   ^
Old Fri, Mar-18-16, 17:38
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 12,136
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amergin
Teaser are you familiar with this bit of info from Prof Roger Unger.

http://diabeticmediterraneandiet.co...diabetes-model/
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjQkqFSdDOc

He proposes a mechanism for the failure to lower glucagon appropriately and suggests it's a bigger issue than heretofore acknowledged.
Doesn't give a definite solution but may identify a mechanism, which is a first step.


Yes, I've seen that, somebody posted it in the research section, maybe a year ago? It was sort of popping around in the back of my head when I posted that bit. I forget the proposed mechanism, but for some reason amylin keeps coming to mind. Guess it's time to watch it again.
Reply With Quote
  #80   ^
Old Sat, Mar-19-16, 04:48
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,965
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Welcome googily...congrats you are in ONEderland...that always feels good on its own, and hope your back pain relief stays that way. With your "moderate carbs" plan, consider if by fasting you also dropped a type of carb, or made some change that might have reduced inflammation. Dropped a bar that had some type of hidden gluten, or AS, etc?
Dr Westman says he can tell if a client is following his plan correctly...they are not hungry, they will "forget" to eat lunch, they are full from dinner and not snack before bed. aka, eat when hungry. LC+IF works well together. I can imagine the hunger to go from a high carb SAD to juice (sugar) fasting is very different.
Reply With Quote
  #81   ^
Old Sat, Mar-19-16, 11:00
googily googily is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Mod carbs
Stats: 245/195.8/176 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 71%
Default

Thanks, Janet! Yes, ONEderland has been a great morale boost, as has getting under 198. Funny what a difference it can make.

As for "moderate carbs," I should probably change that. Mainly it just means that I aim for under 50, but some days I might be up a little higher, and lots of days I'm in the 30s. I don't eat any type of LC bars or anything like that--pretty clean, pretty plain.

And I can believe what you say Dr. Westman says, because I can really feel it now, combining LCHF and IF -- two meals & maybe a very small snack getting me to 1,600-1,700 calories a day, I feel so much more satisfied. And if you had told me that I could be satisfied on 1,600 calories in two meals, I never would have believed it. (When I lost weight a few years ago down from 245 to 198, I probably never went below 2,000, using exercise to make up the difference.)

As for my back (still feeling so much better!), I don't know. I was in the midst of a whoosh, and maybe IF's hormone affects also really helped with inflammation and cortisol. It's been utterly intractable, and now I'm 90% better than I was just on Tuesday. It's almost bizarre, but I'll take it!
Reply With Quote
  #82   ^
Old Mon, Mar-21-16, 13:54
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,965
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Dr Fung's talk at the Vail LC Conference:
http://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk
Reply With Quote
  #83   ^
Old Mon, Mar-21-16, 16:11
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,793
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Dr Fung's talk at the Vail LC Conference:
http://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk
He sure crammed a lot from his various writings and lectures into those 36 minutes. It would be a good introduction to show to non-believers, riiight? (sorry, I couldn't resist).

It is horrendous that the Biggest Loser is still destroying metabolisms 4 yrs later. The fact that metabolisms decrease even when exercising several hours a day (or not at all) should be eye-opening.

I still wonder, however, how a 500-calorie "fast" like Varady's differs from an ultra-low calorie (500) diet where the metabolic rate is concerned. 500 cals in one meal would be IF, but I think Varady spreads them out and allows more carbs than a ketogenic diet.

Last edited by deirdra : Mon, Mar-21-16 at 16:16.
Reply With Quote
  #84   ^
Old Tue, Mar-22-16, 16:49
diabetic_d diabetic_d is offline
New Member
Posts: 19
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 255/230/215 Male 72
BF:
Progress:
Default

I just finished 8 weeks of fasting taking my "baby steps" of fasting 3 times per week, doing between 15-18 hours of fasting. Yesterday I decided to try from (late) noon to (early) noon, about 22 hours. Big step for me. Now I'm turning to the next step from 3 times per week to alternating days, also turning toward 22-24 hour fasts.

I'm reading Dr. Fung's book, the Obesity Code, and I was taken back by the tone of his writing, almost with a "foreordained" or "predestined" outcome that diets don't work, then that exercise doesn't work. It seemed pretty much a foregone conclusion, very strongly stated, which is bothersome. I think his web site says as much, doesn't it? And he quotes lots of research on the matter.

His chapter on insulin resistance is helpful in seeing why this may be the case, that with increasing levels of insulin and with length of time, the insulin resistance makes everything more difficult, if not impossible.

But . . . I know lot of people years ago who did Bill Phillips' "Body for Life" and had total body transformations through his diet/exercise plan. Not AT ALL like the "Biggest Loser" analogy that is used that metabolism is destroyed. There are lot of folks in Beachbody claiming transformation through their diet plans/exercise plans. Then I know personally people who through Weight Watchers or even Dr. Joel Fuhrman's plant based system that have used only diet to make the transformations.

Dr. Fung's chapter explaining insulin's effects are pretty compelling. So, I'm thinking if that is correct, which I accept, then it seems to me that these other plans have to deal with the insulin effect too, and they do that through diet and exercise apparently. So, it seems to work for a lot of folks, especially if they are younger.

However, as I said at one time, these presuppositions I've had to lay aside because they have not worked for me. Dr. Fung pretty much hit the nail on the head for me, and I'm thinking maybe it is because I'm diabetic and older that I've had meager success through the years. Then again, I know lots of people who have lost tremendous weight only to gain it back (self included).

There is certainly a lot of obesity in the country, so whatever works I'm happy for those who have found it. I still have the presuppositions in my mind especially regarding exercise, but I lay it aside because it hasn't worked for me to overcome "Big D." So, for me, laying aside presuppositions I've come through several years to follow LCHF as a way to manage my diet, and exercise to burn the glucose out of my muscles and organs. Still wanting to overcome and reverse diabetes, rather than manage, I'm listening and following Dr. Fung advice.

Anyone else had presuppositions to have to lay aside?
Reply With Quote
  #85   ^
Old Tue, Mar-22-16, 19:12
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

DD, there ARE people who can do well on other WOE's. But once you have become carb sensitive, or if you are dealing with a poorly or non functioning pancreas, LCHF is really, with or without IF, is really the only rational way to do it.

I am an Herbalife distributor. I have seen people lose literally hundreds of pounds, following their "two shakes and one colorful meal" plan.

And, I've seen people lose down to maybe 180, 190, 210, and then stop. Because the number of carbs in that plan are too high for them.

I'm one of them. I couldn't get below 184, with three years of careful eating.

So, I understand your confusion. But IF you add one piece to your understanding of Dr. Fung's hypothesis: the development of insulin resistance and carb sensitivity, it will make sense for you.

Once we've developed those two, related issues, we can no longer lose easily, or enough, on a diet that is even fairly low carb.

As for the diet and exercise equation: many people lose weight on low cal, but it's not sustainable, because there is too much hunger created by the rising and falling levels of BGs.

Ask any person who went on a long term low calorie diet, and hunger will be their overriding impression of that period of their lives. THAT is why diet and exercise don't work, in the long run, for most people.
Reply With Quote
  #86   ^
Old Wed, Mar-23-16, 06:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,351
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

I spent the 1990's committed to low fat (25 grams a day) and exercise (45 minutes of floor exercises, 45 minutes on the mountain climbing machine which is totally as strenuous as it sounds.) Every day.

Got down to a consistent size 12, which looks good on me, and I considered myself a success.

Then I got sick and couldn't exercise. I could not eat a small enough amount to not pack on the pounds. We could put people into that semi-starvation experiment of Dr. Keys and they would lose weight. Doesn't mean that can be applied to the population, does it?

Was 70-80 pounds overweight (I don't own a scale) when I did Atkins, lost down to a size TEN in six months. It was amazing. Wasn't hungry and didn't exercise either.

There's many ways to lose weight, and I probably tried 90% of them. But maintaining never worked until Atkins, and from what I've seen, Weight Watchers can't say that.
Reply With Quote
  #87   ^
Old Wed, Mar-23-16, 11:57
SilverTgr's Avatar
SilverTgr SilverTgr is offline
New Member
Posts: 9
 
Plan: LC/HF
Stats: 404/346/250 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabetic_d
But . . . I know lot of people years ago who did Bill Phillips' "Body for Life" and had total body transformations through his diet/exercise plan. Not AT ALL like the "Biggest Loser" analogy that is used that metabolism is destroyed. There are lot of folks in Beachbody claiming transformation through their diet plans/exercise plans. Then I know personally people who through Weight Watchers or even Dr. Joel Fuhrman's plant based system that have used only diet to make the transformations.


He might not have made it clear that weight loss can occur in the short term on almost any plan. The 3 to 5% success rate is in long term weight loss. Where were those people 5 years later?

A message board isn't a good way to get an idea of how many people are successful. If you failed at the method, you're probably more likely to blame yourself and just fade away.

Most studies on weight loss methods only go to 18 months or if you're lucky, two years. After that period, 95% of people gain the weight back, sometimes plus more.
Reply With Quote
  #88   ^
Old Wed, Mar-23-16, 14:32
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,965
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

From that paragon of scientific journalism, The New York Post:

Forget calorie counting this is the real secret to weight loss | New York Post from Dr. Jason Fung.

http://nypost.com/2016/03/23/forget...to-weight-loss/
Reply With Quote
  #89   ^
Old Wed, Mar-23-16, 15:36
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,351
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

I spent the 1990's committed to low fat (25 grams a day) and exercise (45 minutes of floor exercises, 45 minutes on the mountain climbing machine which is totally as strenuous as it sounds.) Every day.

Got down to a consistent size 12, which looks good on me, and I considered myself a success.

Then I got sick and couldn't exercise. I could not eat a small enough amount to not pack on the pounds. We could put people into that semi-starvation experiment of Dr. Keys and they would lose weight. Doesn't mean that can be applied to the population, does it?

Was 70-80 pounds overweight (I don't own a scale) when I did Atkins, lost down to a size TEN in six months. It was amazing. Wasn't hungry and didn't exercise either.

There's many ways to lose weight, and I probably tried 90% of them. But maintaining never worked until Atkins, and from what I've seen, Weight Watchers can't say that.
Reply With Quote
  #90   ^
Old Fri, Mar-25-16, 07:44
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,479
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/208/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 39%
Default

CURE T2D NOW! CURE T2D NOW! CURE T2D NOW! CURE T2D NOW! CURE T2D NOW!

Ha! that should wake you up

What is Thud123 reading? He's reading this book review by Dr. Fung...

https://intensivedietarymanagement....ood-sugar-diet/

Thank you Dr. Fung!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 18:00.


Copyright © 2000-2018 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.