Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61   ^
Old Sat, Mar-12-16, 09:55
drdog98 drdog98 is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Deciding
Stats: 240/240/200 Male 73.2
BF:
Progress:
Default

Thank you for the information Janet! As for the time I was trying and not losing, I am not on any medication. I am 35 (just turned in January) and am only semi active really (now and then). So honestly, the only thing that changed was the added fasting and it completely changed my BS and weight loss. The situation was equally hard for me because my brother (360 pounds) lost 40 pounds in the same period I lost none (obviously proud of him, just a little sad for me at the time as well). Granted I need to lose less (260 pounds here), but I still need to lose a lot. I am excited about the prospects of this and starting today I am adding in some exercise to help out. I really like DDP Yoga because I have a bad back and it does wonders for it and gives me a workout. So I am going to start that and some walking. After I get going really good I have a more intense workout program I want to try during non-fast days.

One thing I have noticed about this program is that I am much more aware when I am actually hungry, emotional/bored eating, and thirsty. I think what makes it easier is that I have found a stable breakfast meal that I love (a homemade egg noodle pasta) and do not tire of like plain eggs.

-Steve
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #62   ^
Old Sat, Mar-12-16, 21:26
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 4,323
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/003.4/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 99%
Default

Glad you are having some nice results DrDog! Awareness is also something that I find beneficial result of fasting. I'm getting more in tune with different patterns, social, time of day, physical and mental etc. that precede putting a fork or chopstick in my mouth. It's very, very interesting

I just finished a 5 day "water" fast this morning. I quote water because there are other things I'm having and they are, coffee, tea, bone broth, bullion, energy drink, and last night I added some protein (salmon and a bit of beef) having done some pretty good exercise on day 4 and 5.

Interesting to note that the baseline reading and BP and BG were all kind of not what I expected them to be. What's new I came off of 2 days of maxing out my current carb plan of ~25 net carbs / day. Day 2 was tuffest with food some musings from lunch time to dinner. Having done some IF already I have some tools to work with these thoughts. My approach is simple:

Recognize, Acknowledge, Let Go. Distractions in the evening are very helpful like getting chores done, talking a walk or socializing. Saw a movie with friends Thursday night.

Hopefully this might be helpful to someone.

Comments and thoughts, if any, are here on my journal http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...5&page=19&pp=15

Baseline (after 8 hours sleep)
BG: 107 mg/dL
BP/Pulse: 99/68/68
Urine Ketones: Negative
Weight: 124.4 Kg

EOD 1
BG: 106 mg/dL
BP/Pulse: 106/71/67
Urine Ketones: ~50 mg/dL
Weight: 121.4 Kg

EOD 2
BG: 94 mg/dL
BP/Pulse: 106/75/66
Urine Ketones: ~40 mg/dL
Weight: 120.0 Kg

EOD 3
BG: 92 mg/dL
BP/Pulse: 118/81/64
Urine Ketones: ~70 mg/dL
Weight: 119.4 Kg

EOD 4
BG: strip failed, 105 then 97 mg/dL (who knows)
BP/Pulse: 105/72/68
Urine Ketones: ~60 mg/dL
Weight: 119.3 Kg

EOD 5
BG: 85 mg/dL
BP/Pulse: 103/70/64
Urine Ketones: ~75 mg/dL
Weight: 119.1 Kg

Last edited by thud123 : Sun, Mar-13-16 at 06:55. Reason: added awareness
Reply With Quote
  #63   ^
Old Mon, Mar-14-16, 14:38
SilverTgr's Avatar
SilverTgr SilverTgr is offline
New Member
Posts: 9
 
Plan: LC/HF
Stats: 404/346/250 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Canada
Default

I am catching up with the original thread right now. I am so excited by the idea of IF. I remember thinking that being addicted to food is much harder than other addictions because you can't just not eat. But... you *can* just not eat. I had bought into the "it slows your metabolism" line. I know that I have to be careful about not "making up for it" by gorging at other times. Overall though it seems like the perfect solution for me on paper. In reality, we shall see how bad hunger pangs get. Thank you to everyone who's already posted here with helpful tips!
Reply With Quote
  #64   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-16, 06:03
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,725
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

You can ease into it. Try some tea and broth, but if still hungry after 20 minutes, then eat...aim for a while longer tomorrow. Nobody's keeping score on this thread

I happened to look at Bob Briggs FB (Butter makes your pants fall off guy) and he is a Fung Fan too. You might find more tips on his page. https://www.facebook.com/buttermake...?type=3&theater
Reply With Quote
  #65   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-16, 09:05
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

One thing that's helpful, when planning a fast: being hungry for an hour is not detrimental to your health. Think about the times that you have been really busy--giving a kid a bath, finishing a work project--and even though you were hungry, couldn't stop right then to eat.

The hungry goes away, right?
Reply With Quote
  #66   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 10:05
SilverTgr's Avatar
SilverTgr SilverTgr is offline
New Member
Posts: 9
 
Plan: LC/HF
Stats: 404/346/250 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Canada
Default

It has been interesting to experience hunger. When I wasn't low carbing it, hunger was a much different experience. It was a real need to eat ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW. I used to fear being hungry because it might lead to overeating. But when I'm not eating carby food, the overeating doesn't seem to happen.

Huh.
Reply With Quote
  #67   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 10:20
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 794
 
Plan: Lazy keto
Stats: 410/334.4/225 Male 75 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 41%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTgr
It has been interesting to experience hunger. When I wasn't low carbing it, hunger was a much different experience. It was a real need to eat ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW. I used to fear being hungry because it might lead to overeating. But when I'm not eating carby food, the overeating doesn't seem to happen.

Huh.


It's true. Very, very true.
Reply With Quote
  #68   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 13:26
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,725
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Tiger

Jimmy Moore's newest podcast with Dr Fung about the book.

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/...e-obesity-code/
Reply With Quote
  #69   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 17:01
drdog98 drdog98 is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Deciding
Stats: 240/240/200 Male 73.2
BF:
Progress:
Default

I can relate to what you describe hunger. I cannot tell you how many times that type of hunger took me to a negative/confrontational mood swing where I felt must to eat now. When I started fasting I jumped right in at 36hrs 3x per week and that first fast day was hard, but I was determined. By fast day 2 and 3 I realized that hunger while fasting felt nothing like the overwhelming feeling of hunger I was used to. I found that making homemade bone broth (super easy, just takes a couple days in a crockpot) and seasoning it just like I do my homemade chili really helped me. I typically have 1 (2 if needed) cup of this chili sauce that is packed with fat and nutrients and it stops my hunger instantly. The broth keeps me feeling full most of the day. Other than that I drink about 176 ounces of water (based on needs for my weight) and that helps to. Since I had a great start (considering the impact on BS and actually seeing weight loss), I decided to test out the 24hr fast 3 to 4 days a week instead of the 36hr one. So far I love it because I get dinner everyday and I am still seeing all the benefits of the 36hr fast. That said, I feel confident I could increase my fast if I ever needed...As long as I have my chili fat bone broth


~Jey100 THANK YOU for posting that link Butter Bob! You sent me down a rabbit hole that I spent hours on. I have read his web page and watched every video he has done on his youtube. Very informative and I loved how he presents things. His story/information along with Dr. Fungs has really been a great turning point for me. I feel empowered instead of resolved in hopelessness. After watching Bob's videos I have even took a long look at my LCHF diet and am adjusting it a little to see how some of his suggestions or insights really, will pay out in my situation. I also really resonated with his talk about not eating when you are full, just because it is a meal time. Mainly because since I have started this, there has been more than one occasion on non-fast days where I just still felt very full at dinner time, even though my meals are not huge and I do not snack. I think a mistake I am making is I was still forcing myself to eat during those times, because it was meal time. This has all been very eye opening as I learn more and start to listen to my own body. That said, keep up the good work all.

One question that plagues me is: What is moderate protein. I am having a hard time finding a straight answer on how much a 260# person should eat in order to stay moderate and I wonder if I should go by total weight or lean body mass. Any help would be great!


-Steve

Last edited by drdog98 : Wed, Mar-16-16 at 18:26.
Reply With Quote
  #70   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 19:27
boazy97 boazy97 is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/160/125 Female 61
BF:
Progress: 36%
Default

I love the Book, just read it.
This was in his website - blog.

"Dr Fung, in regards to your comment “If you try to keep a constant diet, the body will adapt to it”, does this not apply to consistent IF? If I do 24h fasting every day (eating only dinner) wouldnt the body adapt to that type of dieting too after a while? Also, I am doing 2-3 24hr fasts per week and the weight is very slowly going down (I only have 3-4kg to loose, i’m helathy and not overweight and not on any meds) , is it dangerous to do 24h fasts every day until I reach my weight goal (and then go down to 1-2 times a week)? Or will it stress my body trying to get results too quickly (and being on constant calorie deficit as I dont eat more than 1000kcal when breaking my 24hr fasts)? Thanks!

Dr.Jason Fung: We often find, in our clinic, that daily 24 hour fasting is less effective than occasional longer fasts.

Kind of makes me think it is a waste of time to do less than 24 hour fast.
Reply With Quote
  #71   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 20:01
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

boazy: if you are very close to goal (may want to adjust your stats), and you are not insulin resistant, then the goal of fasting for you may be different than for someone who has been losing very slowly, or not at all, despite having quite a bit of weight to lose.

IF is a good concept. But it's not a "speed up weight loss" idea, as much as it is a "get a broken metabolism back together again" idea.

With 7 to 10 lbs to lose, having started at 180, your metabolism doesn't appear to be broken. In that case, you may want to start thinking of the way you will eat once you are at goal, and eat that way down to goal, as well.

That way, you won't have big adjustments to make, and eating on plan will be your default for life, not a temporary fix.

That said, there are more than a few people here in this forum who routinely eat once a day.

I eat two to three times a day, within a 12 hour window. It'll get tightened up once our schedules are less chaotic, but it works for now, and will work once I'm at my goal, as well.
Reply With Quote
  #72   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-16, 22:32
kirkor kirkor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 182
 
Plan: IF dairy-free keto ish
Stats: 175/175/170 Male 71
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boazy97
Dr.Jason Fung: We often find, in our clinic, that daily 24 hour fasting is less effective than occasional longer fasts.

Kind of makes me think it is a waste of time to do less than 24 hour fast.


Depends on your goals. The people in Fung's clinic are there for very specific reasons, and the potential benefits of the various IF protocols span a much wider set of personal circumstances and goals.
Reply With Quote
  #73   ^
Old Thu, Mar-17-16, 07:20
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,725
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Steve, glad to hear you enjoyed Bob's videos, he has quite a legion of fans, "not being hungry" is how all LCHF diets "work"
From Atkins to Westman to Briggs...the first principle is "Eat only when hungry, stop when full".
And you will never find the definitive answer on "how much protein"...believe me, we have all been looking for years Protein formulas are all over the place, but keep it simple to start, Dr Sarah Hallberg's rule is one I like. 3-4 Palm sized servings of protein, and since a man normally has bigger palms, that is roughly 80g for a woman, 120 for a man. You're tall, active enough not to worry about protein (the whole protein turns to glucose thing may be overblown) just don't pick a 12 oz steak for dinner.

Dr Fung's protocols found on his website two years ago, and the same in the book, are for alternating the days...Do 36 or 24 hour fasts 3 days a week, but not two days in a row.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Mar-17-16 at 07:36.
Reply With Quote
  #74   ^
Old Thu, Mar-17-16, 10:40
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 794
 
Plan: Lazy keto
Stats: 410/334.4/225 Male 75 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 41%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

New blog post:

https://intensivedietarymanagement....arb-fasting-26/

Quote:
What’s the difference in power between fasting and LowCarb High Fat (LCHF)? Sometimes it feels like arguing whether Batman or Superman is more powerful (Superman, of course). But they’re both superheros, and the point of both these dietary superhero regimens is to lower insulin. This stems from a rational examination about the causes of obesity and type 2 diabetes. You need to understand the aetiology of obesity (the underlying cause) if you are to have any hope of treating it.
Reply With Quote
  #75   ^
Old Thu, Mar-17-16, 11:56
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,652
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

Too bad the study he used is behind a paywall. One thing Dr. Fung writes about glucagon being found to not contribute to the effectiveness of the interventions, and there was little difference between the interventions for this. Interesting though, since one of the interventions had them eating lots of carbs, yet their glucagon is described as being insignificantly different from when they ate zero carb or fasted--this in itself is an elevated glucagon in the carb-fed period, since dietary carbohydrate should have driven glucagon down.

Something I also find interesting is how the insulin acts in the second graph. It looks like the total area for insulin is roughly half what it is for the carb-free diet when fasting, and the carb free insulin is roughly half what it is for the standard carby diet. This sort of implies a reserve of insulin secretion capacity in the low carb group. Which is interesting in light of this;

Quote:
The overnight fasting glucose concentration decreased from 196 (standard diet) to 160 (carbohydrate-free diet) to 127 mg/dl (fasting)


Or as Dr. Fung puts it;


Quote:
Even then, the carb-free diet does remarkably well – giving you 71% of the benefits of the fasting, without actual fasting.


Which sort of begs the question--why don't the beta cells secrete the bit of extra insulin needed to bring the blood glucose down in the low carb period, as low as it went in the fasting period? Insufficient potential insulin secretion doesn't seem to be the problem...

One thing I think could be a factor--that glucagon that didn't decrease, it's possible that the effect of glucagon on the liver's blood glucose production is partly driven by the liver's capacity to produce glucose. In a prolonged fast, the rate of gluconeogenesis is substrate-driven, as protein and carbohydrate metabolism decrease through the fast in favour of fat, availability of amino acids for glucose production decreases.

None of this says that glucagon isn't a good target for intervention, if you could find a way to do it, it would bring down glucose, that would bring down insulin.

Also, none of my babbling really detracts from Dr. Fung's statement that it's the insulin, stupid--because failure of glucagon to decrease with the carbohydrate feeding is likely due to insulin resistance by some cell or other--either the cells that themselves produce glucagon, or the cells that produce other hormones etc. that drive glucagon release.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:09.


Copyright © 2000-2018 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.