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  #16   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 12:01
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,162
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/185.9/000 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 46%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesriske
...I found a blood lab that will give me a full VAP test of my blood cholesterol for around $100.


Thank you for the detailed and thought provoking post! When you mentioned the above I thought that would be a good idea for me to spend some money on testing out side of my normal checkups. My doctor knows I'm doing low carb and my cholesterol at last check before changing eating was on the higher side but not thought worth of drugs yet. I've posted my on MyPlan.

I have no good info to give you as I am new to this as well and have no data other that I feel better and have more energy cutting out Grains, Potatoes and Starches and being more selective about the carbs I do ingest.

Good luck and post when you have more info. I'm following this thread
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 12:45
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 3,220
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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I probably came off as a little flippant in my previous reply but I guess my point is that there are all sorts of things we can be worrying about at any one time or for any one lifetime. For reasons not entirely clear the medical profession chose some time back to focus on cholesterol. I think it is Gary Taubes in "Good Calories Bad Calories" who said the choice was made not because it was the most important thing to focus on but because it could be measured while other things couldn't. So I've decided just not to worry about it. Whether this is wise or foolish I don't know but neither does the medical profession There are things most of us do every day that are probably much more likely to cause harm than having a high cholesterol number that we simply choose not to worry about or not to worry about too much like driving a car. I probably worry more than many people about the dangers in every day living at the same time I have decided for myself that I am much safer staying away from doctors and prescription meds unless it seems absolutely necessary, in other words acute illness which I cannot treat myself. So I would say that the question about high cholesterol has no definitive answer. Like so many other things we get to choose what to do about it without knowing whether our choice is a good one or a bad one

Jean
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 18:56
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Here's my story: my brother is a family practitioner. He's a good one: multiple years in a row, until he was no longer eligible, he was voted one of the best in the Twin Cities, by fellow doctors and nurses.

But he's 75 lbs overweight, and looks TERRIBLE.

Today, we were at our brother in law's funeral, and talking to BIL's younger sister. She's been obese for most of her adult life. She mentioned that she had taken the cardiac issues of her brother to heart, and had lost 75 lbs in the past year.

Brother said: "It's keeping it off that's the hard part." And went on to tell her that the important thing was to pay attention to symptoms that something's wrong with your heart: pounding, pain, even slight, feeling like you can't catch your breath, or light headedness, etc.

NOT.A.WORD about prevention--eating properly, no praise for the work on losing weight. He's a doctor. Like many doctors, he doesn't understand how what we eat fuels every process in our bodies, including inflammation that leads to plaque formation in the arteries. It's not the circulating cholesterol that is the issue: it's whether or not the blood vessels are inflamed, because any level of cholesterol can lead to plaque formation if the vessels are inflamed. They gather at the site of the inflammation to try to calm it down, and get stuck there.

My brother is a smart man. And a highly educated one. But he, like all of us, doesn't know what he doesn't know. It's completely outside his ability to process the idea that what he learned in med school, and since, may be off the mark.

It breaks my heart. Because it just may, literally, break his.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 20:52
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickiSue
Here's my story: my brother is a family practitioner. He's a good one: multiple years in a row, until he was no longer eligible, he was voted one of the best in the Twin Cities, by fellow doctors and nurses.

But he's 75 lbs overweight, and looks TERRIBLE.

Today, we were at our brother in law's funeral, and talking to BIL's younger sister. She's been obese for most of her adult life. She mentioned that she had taken the cardiac issues of her brother to heart, and had lost 75 lbs in the past year.

Brother said: "It's keeping it off that's the hard part." And went on to tell her that the important thing was to pay attention to symptoms that something's wrong with your heart: pounding, pain, even slight, feeling like you can't catch your breath, or light headedness, etc.

NOT.A.WORD about prevention--eating properly, no praise for the work on losing weight. He's a doctor. Like many doctors, he doesn't understand how what we eat fuels every process in our bodies, including inflammation that leads to plaque formation in the arteries. It's not the circulating cholesterol that is the issue: it's whether or not the blood vessels are inflamed, because any level of cholesterol can lead to plaque formation if the vessels are inflamed. They gather at the site of the inflammation to try to calm it down, and get stuck there.

My brother is a smart man. And a highly educated one. But he, like all of us, doesn't know what he doesn't know. It's completely outside his ability to process the idea that what he learned in med school, and since, may be off the mark.

It breaks my heart. Because it just may, literally, break his.



I have a friend who's always had normal cholesterol and just had a massive heart attack. She left the hospital with an almost 100% blockage in the artery in her neck (too dangerous to operate on).
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Jan-07-16, 04:35
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,491
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Nancy has more info on this, but certain gene markers, is it the APO E 3 /4 ? Combination will pre-dispose someone to storing more dietary fat as cholesterol than other APO E genes. You can have that tested, as well as getting and NMR or VAP at many of the direct-to-consumer labs for about $100.

BUT, having finally watched the fascinating Widow Maker movie on Amazon Prime, if anyone is worried about heart disease, the even better route is having a Coronary Calcium Score done. See right into the heart for evidence of disease. Supposedly these too have come down in price and have reduced the X-Ray exposure. The stent business (hospitals, doctors and manufacturers) and insurance companies have been blocking its use for years. [from movie...25% of Mayo Clinic income comes from its "Cath Lab", using CAC's would cut that in half]

Dr Jeff Gerber had a recent post on it: http://denversdietdoctor.com/lchf-1...ium-score-zero/
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Jan-07-16, 07:41
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Maintaining
Posts: 2,691
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 62 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 100%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Dr Jeff Gerber had a recent post on it: http://denversdietdoctor.com/lchf-1...ium-score-zero/
You are the queen of DIY medical testing, so how do I get a Coronary Artery Calcium screening? I'm assuming I have to get my PCP to order it? Despite my LCHF WOE I'm pretty sure I have some calcium buildup, having had at least one TIA. Also, both parents had heart conditions. Too much deep-fried meat and gravy with mashed potatoes in their long lives.
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Jan-07-16, 08:19
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,491
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Here's what my Radiologist's office has to say about coverage...likely to vary by state. In Texas is mandatory thanks to one legislator who pushed for it.

http://www.wakerad.com/procedures/a...alcium-scoring/

Once you find out how it works in your state, call around to various radiology labs to find the cheapest. Our state and BC have a big push to shop price...they are putting common procedures on a website. Get out of high cost areas and go to the rad lab of a small town hospital and maybe cut the price dramatically. Or not. Duke! had the cheapest hospital colonoscopy in the Triangle, way cheaper than the private gastro I used ten years ago.


North Carolina's Price shopper: http://www.wral.com/blue-cross-onli...dures/14336270/

No CAC listed, but a colonoscopy ranges from $800 to over $5,000 within 25 miles of my home. Duke is the cheapest hospital at $1,000, while hospitals with lesser reputations are over $3,000. Huh?


And DirectLabs partners with NextImageDirect.com. Check their website or call 1-888-608-6099

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jan-07-16 at 12:39.
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Jan-07-16, 08:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,356
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuj6nxCDBZ0

This is a good video, by Ivor Cummins, on the issue of cholesterol and heart disease. He makes a fairly good argument that hyperinsulinism/insulin resistance is a stronger predictor of heart disease than cholesterol. But there also seems to be as good evidence for ApoB or ldl particle count as there is for insulin as a predictor of heart disease, as he points out.

http://www.lipidsonline.org/slides/...lar+study&dpg=3

This is a slide from the Quebec study that Cummins uses, showing risk of heart disease, with insulin levels vs. ApoB particle count. This seems clear--if you have to choose between a nice low particle count and low insulin, you should choose low insulin. At the lowest insulin levels, the difference between high and low particle count was non-significant--very low risk in either case. The other thing that's clear is--if you can't get your insulin down, it probably becomes that much more important to get your ApoB number into the desirable range. Even when somebody gets their blood sugar in order on a low carb diet--there's still the question of how much insulin it took their body to do so. Insulin low enough to to make particle count an insignificant risk factor might not be an option everybody has. I think more aggressive approaches, throwing some fasting into the mix, might help to get insulin low enough.

High particle count plus high insulin gave a risk of heart disease eleven times that with a low particle count and low insulin. A low particle count with high insulin associated with triple the risk.
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-16, 15:26
jamesriske jamesriske is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 246/206/185 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 66%
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Thank you very much for all your comments everyone. I have read them very carefully. My conclusion is that the higher LDL levels at this point are the fat cells metabolizing into the blood stream and releasing their cholesterol as a result of my weight loss and ketosis. Many doctors won't even do lipid blood tests while a patient is losing weight because of this.

And my opinion of my doctor dropped down a couple notches.

I have also been struck with a realization. I'm not eating any more saturated fats or cholesterol triggering foods than I was before the Atkins diet. I have always been a big meat eater and eat an egg every morning. I have not tried to cut down on fats for the last few years. Since Atkins, I have replaced all the refined foods, sugar, and excess junk carbs with more vegetables and salads. I'm eating a huge salad every day now. But the same amounts of meat and eggs and other fats. So how could that possibly trigger a jump in LDL? No, it's not the diet, it's the fact that I'm losing weight.

It's amazing to me how these doctors keep telling people the same advice over and over that doesn't work and people keep getting heart attacks and diabetes and getting fatter and fatter and fatter.

Someone mentioned fiber. Yes, I got a special grinder and I've been grinding my own flax seed and making muffins. Tons of fiber and healthy flax seed, freshly ground. I've even started to make fried chicken with flax seed coating instead of flour.

I love to cook and I'll start posting some of my low carb recipes on here.
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Jan-08-16, 15:36
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesriske

I love to cook and I'll start posting some of my low carb recipes on here.


Please! And so glad you worked this all out for yourself.
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  #26   ^
Old Thu, Jan-14-16, 07:19
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,491
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesinger
You are the queen of DIY medical testing, so how do I get a Coronary Artery Calcium screening? I'm assuming I have to get my PCP to order it? Despite my LCHF WOE I'm pretty sure I have some calcium buildup, having had at least one TIA. Also, both parents had heart conditions. Too much deep-fried meat and gravy with mashed potatoes in their long lives.


At one local hospital, a CAC is $225, you do need a doctor's order to have one, and BC/BS does not cover it because they still consider it an "investigational service or procedure". The privately owned Radiology practice I use charges $350 (umm...need to check my Mammo prices ) Now to check a few other hospitals as it is not on that BC price checker, since it is not a covered service.
But possible checking other CT heart procedures will direct me to other cost effective solutions.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jan-14-16 at 07:32.
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  #27   ^
Old Fri, Jan-22-16, 06:56
comanchesu comanchesu is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 161
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 182/175/155 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress:
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It takes more than a week to get the results of the VAP test-maybe you could ask the lab in advance how long it takes to get the results and then schedule the draw accordingly.
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  #28   ^
Old Fri, Jan-22-16, 07:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,491
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Or, as an alternative to the VAP, found a CAC for $150 a few miles away. $125 if drove down to the coast, and a possible "special" price available February for heart month.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=471526

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Jan-22-16 at 10:23.
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Feb-03-16, 13:45
jamesriske jamesriske is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 246/206/185 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 66%
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As an update. I haven't done a new blood test yet but my blood pressure is way down. It's 100/75.

Starting weight 246, current weight 216

I'm still 100% hardcore, by the book, Atkins.
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  #30   ^
Old Wed, Feb-03-16, 13:59
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Outstanding, James! Just outstanding!
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