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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-16, 14:50
jamesriske jamesriske is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 246/206/185 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 66%
Default 3 months on Atkins, LDL and Cholesterol are Up

Have my numbers from my blood tests both before Atkins and 3 months into it and thought I should share on here.

I arrived at my doctor's 20 pounds lighter (started at 246) and after I told him I was on Atkins he was discouraging. He's a low fat kind of guy. Always telling me to avoid saturated fat. After a bit of discussion I convinced him to let me keep on Atkins for at least another 6 months, he still told me to reduce saturated fat.

Well, we got the numbers back a week later and he called me up and wasn't happy.

Before After

Total : 266 341

Trigyclerides 340 215

HDL 73 79

LDL 125 219

He has me on a low dose statin drug and wanted to double it since I'm still on my 'crazy diet'. So I scrambled around found a bit of information that between the 3 and 4th month of a low carb diet coupled with weight loss, it's normal and common for LDL to go up. Apparently, as you go into ketosis and your stored fat cells get metabolized into your body, they release their cholesterol into your blood stream. Ah ha! When I told him this, he was quiet for a while and then went, "Um...ok. We'll just continue it for another 6 months and see what happens."

Now with all this in mind, I am well aware of the two types of LDL and I found a blood lab that will give me a full VAP test of my blood cholesterol for around $100. My plan is to go there about a week before his next physical in six months so I'll be armed with my (hopefully lower) test results. (when he takes the blood it takes a few days for us both to get it back).

I'm following Atkins to the letter. No cheating and I read the book about five times. Fully exercising, drinking water, on phase 2 at about 30 to 35 carbs a day. No cheating. I read all the labels of everything.

He also has me on high blood pressure med. My current blood pressure is 114 over 90. I'm also on atenolol because I was born with a rapid heart rate, my natural heart rate is about 140. With atenolol, it slows to 85. Had a full heart check up and echocardiogram, heart is healthy and strong.

I must say that the high LDL after three months surprised me and at first the doctor would have talked me out of it had I not found the information about the rise in LDL being only temporary. After the 8 month, it starts to go back down once your weight stabilizes. I think this fact should be told more often to newbies on the diet. I wonder if some of them get their results back after 3 or 4 months and freak out and stop the diet prematurely.

I am really hoping that when I see him next in six months that I'll be below 200 pounds and have my LDL lowered. i will post here and let you guys know. In the meantime, I'm following Atkins to the letter.

Example of today food:

1 scrambled egg with cheese and ham
2 strips of bacon

salad -cucumbers, lettuce, spinach, cheese, real bacon bits, sliced olives, Walden Farms no sugar, no carb dressing

Meat, usually steak, chicken or pork. Grilled in butter or no sauce. And a vegetable, usually asparagus or green beans. If I use sauce, it's no sugar, low or no carb.
.

I know that sounds plain to most people but I just love it.

Tons of water, I love water and have always drank a lot naturally. Before I even have breakfast, I down a half gallon in the morning.

No sugar and all the sneaky ways they try to add it to food.

I have a ketosis meter and am always between .6 and 1.4 (blood test one)

Daily exercise, 3 mile walk or if I go to the gym it's 45 minutes of intense cardio followed by free weight lifting. I more of a husky build type and enjoy weight lifting the most but I've concentrated on cardio more since it was lacking. I finally got up to 45 minutes straight intense cardio.

So what do you guys think? Have you heard of the temporary increase in LDL before or have you experienced it? What are my chances of having the last laugh on my doctor in six months?
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-16, 15:17
ojoj's Avatar
ojoj ojoj is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,184
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
Progress: 101%
Location: South of England
Default

I personally dont think cholesterol has anything to do with anything. I've yet to see any studies that prove that high cholesterol causes heart issues. It seems to be a myth perpetuated by the pharmaceutical industry

So my thoughts are - it doesnt matter

Jo xxx
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-16, 15:39
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is online now
Posts: 5,875
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/208/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 101%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

A few months into the diet my cholesterol numbers were pretty good. TC was good and LDL was only slightly above the optimal range. At 1 year in, my LDL had gone through the roof, dragging TC along with it. Yes, there is some fluctuation to be expected during weight loss, or so I've been told. But from what I've been able to ascertain, there are a lucky few of us that do get crazy high LDL from a very low carb diet. It is a very hot topic as to whether this is dangerous or not given that we are eating a healthy, less inflammatory diet. When my LDL skyrocketed, my doctor (who is relatively supportive of my diet) was concerned and started talking statins. I told her that I'd prefer to try and work on it through diet. So that is what I did through much of 2015. In December, I had my labs done and my latest tweaks made some serious progress. My doctor was happy. I was happy. I'm thinking that once I stop losing (stop eating my own saturated fat deposits in addition to what I swallow) - my cholesterol numbers will be A-OK.

For more information and a few links, you may want to browse through my journal. HERE is a link to my journal page where I discussed my latest lab results and the diet changes I made to achieve them. In a nutshell, I think it boils down to fiber. I added flax, chia seeds, hemp hearts, and psyllium husk powder to my diet and quadrupled my fiber intake. The more fiber I added to my diet, the better my cholesterol numbers got. I did try to watch my saturated fat -- but really made only a little headway in that department. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'm no expert -- I've just been trying to figure this thing out myself. Statins... I did not want to go there.

Last edited by khrussva : Tue, Jan-05-16 at 15:51.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-16, 20:10
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Take a look at what Ken's talking about. But really, your doctor doesn't comment on the fact that your HDL/triglyceride ratio is significantly improved?

Or hasn't he yet learned that THAT is the most significant number in an entire cholesterol panel?
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-16, 22:06
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

My husband's went to over 400, I think. Now it's down a lot after years on low carb but he's been slipping with the carbs and his HDL is down. I think he was better off before with it sky-high. Are you taking the statins?
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 05:57
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,491
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

This sub-forum has many threads on the same topic. Dr. Westman and Dr Davis do not test lipids when you are actively losing weight.
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2015/...nfuses-doctors/

Highly recommend Keto-Clarity book.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 08:19
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Maintaining
Posts: 2,698
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 62 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 100%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ojoj
I personally dont think cholesterol has anything to do with anything. I've yet to see any studies that prove that high cholesterol causes heart issues. It seems to be a myth perpetuated by the pharmaceutical industry

So my thoughts are - it doesnt matter

Jo xxx
I'm in total agreement. That said, when medications are in the picture, the picture is already distorted. No doctor gets to put me on a med I don't like or want. IMO, statins are killers and there's no way I will take them. My DH is totally at the mercy of his doctors and no matter what I say, he allows them to medicate him. Well, it's not my body, it's his and he's the decider.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 09:06
ojoj's Avatar
ojoj ojoj is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,184
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
Progress: 101%
Location: South of England
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesinger
I'm in total agreement. That said, when medications are in the picture, the picture is already distorted. No doctor gets to put me on a med I don't like or want. IMO, statins are killers and there's no way I will take them. My DH is totally at the mercy of his doctors and no matter what I say, he allows them to medicate him. Well, it's not my body, it's his and he's the decider.


There is so much information about how important cholesterol now and very little, in fact nothing in the way of proof that its bad! It seems logical to me that the only reason high cholesterol is considered bad is that it keeps the pharmaceutical industry wealthy, so they just keep pushing the "everyone knows" rubbish - but where is the evidence?

Jo xxx
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 09:11
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Maintaining
Posts: 2,698
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 62 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 100%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ojoj
There is so much information about how important cholesterol now and very little, in fact nothing in the way of proof that its bad! It seems logical to me that the only reason high cholesterol is considered bad is that it keeps the pharmaceutical industry wealthy, so they just keep pushing the "everyone knows" rubbish - but where is the evidence?

Jo xxx
I don't want to hijack this thread, but just want to say this:
The body makes cholesterol and it's job is to keep us healthy.
When my friends were dying of AIDS in the 80s, they were starving for lack of cholesterol. Their bodies could no longer make it.
Cholesterol is not a devil, but an angel.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 09:20
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,207
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Sample some of the articles in my collection of statin/cholesterol articles (see signature).

I'm of the opinion that your doctor is paid to render an opinion, not orders.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Wed, Jan-06-16 at 10:12.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 09:27
DelaneyLC's Avatar
DelaneyLC DelaneyLC is offline
Posts: 1,994
 
Plan: Atkins '72
Stats: 188/143/144 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 102%
Location: NV
Default

I had the same issue. I didn't get tested until I was on very low carb for well over a year and pretty close to goal. My LDL pretty much doubled. That happens to a very small percentage of people. I don't and won't take statins again so I have had to make some changes. I quit using coconut oil and bacon grease. Now I mostly use Olive oil and just a bit of butter for eggs. I still eat eggs, but not as much as I was. Cut back on beef and pork, eating more chicken and fish.

I will get retested in a couple of months and hope the changes I've made help.

I have read that what you eat doesn't affect your cholesterol...but that's not true for everyone, because some unlucky ones like me are affected by high fat eating.

Last edited by DelaneyLC : Wed, Jan-06-16 at 09:39.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 09:37
ojoj's Avatar
ojoj ojoj is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,184
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
Progress: 101%
Location: South of England
Default

When I first started atkins 13 years ago, I actually had my cholesterol tested because my GP thought this "silly" diet meant it would rise and I didnt know any better - well it didnt. A couple of days after having the blood test my doctor phoned me and was very concerned. My cholesterol was low - in fact he had never seen such low triglycerides. He said that low cholesterol was a marker for cancer! So does taking statins mean you'll get cancer??

At that point, I asked around at work (I work with cardiologists), I studied, searched and researched and so far, I've found nothing to prove that high cholesterol causes anything at all!



Jo xxx
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 10:56
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is online now
Posts: 5,875
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/208/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 101%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

I am more on the fence on this issue than most LCers are. Yes we need cholesterol. We cannot not live with out it. But there are many examples in life where too much of a good thing is actually a bad thing. Arteries are clogging up with plaques. People are dying from CVD at rates far greater than rates 100 years ago. Something is causing it. I just don't think they've figured the whole thing out as much as "they" believe they have. It is certainly more complicated than a cholesterol number. IMO - diet is the most important factor -- but that is just my opinion. I don't see any proof that statins or other similar drugs save lives. I am of the opinion that the whole statin thing is a for profit scam based on theories, guesses, bad data, misinterpreted data, agenda driven interpretations and just plain lies. It is a money making mess and it is costing us all.

But does lack of evidence for the benefits of statins exonerate elevated cholesterol as a risk factor in CVD? No, it doesn't. It just means that simply changing a cholesterol number with statins appears to do nothing to fix the problem. It does not prove that extremely high levels of cholesterol are safe one way or the other.

Being one whose LDL-C number more than doubled in just 9 months doing a VLCHF diet, I was concerned about it. There is high cholesterol and then there is crazy high cholesterol. Mine was bordering on crazy high. Like it or not, there is an association between high LDL-C and CVD. There is just no data available about this association in the context of a LCHF diet. Maybe it is no big deal. Maybe it is. Without data there is no way to know. I chose to error on the side of caution. I decided to try to do something to get my LDL-C down through dietary changes. In the end I was able to figure out a way to drastically lower the LDL-C and remain low carb. Am I now at less risk for CVD? Who knows? My doctor seems to think so. What I do know is that I am happier about my cholesterol numbers and I am happy with my diet. I like what I'm eating, I'm in control, and I'm still losing.

The cholesterol test I had last march was the first to show the significant rise in my LDL-C (248) & TC (314). Not long after that I started noticing little yellow dots forming in the skin under my eyes. At my last appointment my doctor took a look at it. It is more than likely a condition called Xanthalasma. Those yellow dots are cholesterol deposits. This condition is rare, but it most often appears in individuals with elevated cholesterol. My doctor said that now that my I've gotten my cholesterol down significantly, those yellow patches should dissipate over time. I haven't noticed any changes yet - but I know that they have not grown any larger in recent months.



I'm not trying to be an alarmist. But I'm not willing to tell someone that their elevated cholesterol is not an issue. It might be something to worry about. It might not be. I got very high cholesterol from doing a VLCHF diet. I worried about it. I did something about it. And I'm glad I did. It may be that cholesterol is an issue for some low carbers and not for others. I'd sure hate to tell someone that it is not a problem and not to worry about it only to have them find out otherwise years later.

Last edited by khrussva : Wed, Jan-06-16 at 11:01.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 11:05
DelaneyLC's Avatar
DelaneyLC DelaneyLC is offline
Posts: 1,994
 
Plan: Atkins '72
Stats: 188/143/144 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 102%
Location: NV
Default

I agree with what Ken said. I would rather get my LDL down than to just ignore it. With extremely high cholesterol there could be a problem. There's the Unknown Factor...so why take a chance if you can make a diet change, yet still stay LC.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-16, 11:45
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 3,239
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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I'm in the ignor camp, but that's just me. It's been over a decade since I had my cholesterol checked. Whether or not any of the various cholesterol numbers mean anything important seems to be a big unknown. Then, if they mean something important is there anything useful we can do about it? Also an unknown. What seems clear to me is that statins are a dangerous drug. I took Lipitor for a while and developed severe disabling joint pain. Stopping the drug stopped the pain and it has never returned. I'm hitching my wagon to a low carb diet and not worrying about saturated fat. Each of us has to decide for ourselves what is worth worrying about and what isn't. To safeguard my health I choose not to ride a motorcycle or climb MT Everest along with a few other precautions. I also look both ways before I cross the street.

Jean
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