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  #1   ^
Old Fri, May-29-15, 10:52
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,856
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default Do you follow an Atkins vita nutrient protocol?

I've just finished re-reading my LC Bible from cover to cover: Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution (paperback published in 1999).

In this edition, he references his practice of Complementary Medicine, and the use of nutritional supplements. He has one chapter called "Nutritional Supplements--The Secrets of the Atkins Center." However, he refers readers to his book Vita-Nutrient Solution for details.

I own this book, too, and have referred to it from time to time for specific purposes. However, I have never taken seriously Dr. Atkins's advice to consult a sympathetic health care professional in order to embark on a personal plan for optimum use of supplements for ongoing health management. For one thing, I wouldn't know whom to consult. For another, his recommendations are HUGE, and I'm not sure I need to make that kind of investment for what some people would call very expensive urine.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has done so? What was your outcome?

For the record, I do take a few supplements, as guided by my doc over the years: multi-vitamin, calcium + D, glucosamine, CoQ10, fish oil, alpha lipoic acid (that's one on Atkins's list), chromium picolinate (also Atkins-advised), magnesium (recently added). I can't particularly know if these substances are "working" because I don't have any health problems! Sometimes it feels like clapping my hands to keep the tigers away. See? No tigers!

Anyway, since Vita-nutrients are such a big deal for Dr. Atkins, I'm curious about the experience of others. Please tell me your supplement story.

Best wishes.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, May-29-15, 11:33
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 7,896
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

I do have that book, see (holds up book)

I actually re-read parts of it the other day, especially to portions on Magnesium and Potassium. It's something to think about when doing this WOE because without those two in balance, we can have heart arrhythmia and flutters and I have.
I was also seeing spots last summer for several days and that was crazy...

We loose so much of those minerals/ electrolytes on this WOE and I do think adding them back as Atkins suggested is mandatory and I wonder if the new versions are stressing these important points.
I buy all of my Atkins books at re-sale shops and I think I paid 50cents for this $15 book.

Really good info on vitamins in this book and what they do and how to they effect us when we are deficient...

I think the Mag and Pot is mandatory and the others are good but not as life threatening as these two when deficient.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, May-29-15, 18:51
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,448
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

My most enthusiastic foray into supplementation preceded a serious manic episode, so I'm a little leery of going much further than the more obvious supplements--fish oil, vitamin d, a multivitamin. I was taking a lot of medication with possible benefits to the brain, like melatonin, lipoic acid, creatine, glutamine, and taurine. Most of these have possible connections to mania as well, though. There's a circadian element to bipolar, so mucking around with my sleep using melatonin could possibly have thrown things off. There's a study on creatine and depression, but it's kind of small--out of eight participants, the two bipolars became manic. Margot Kidder supplements with small amounts of glutamine, claims large amounts can make her a bit manic. There's something out there about taurine, but I forget what it was. I was hoping it would all help me with social anxiety. It did a little, but clearly psychosis is no answer.

Alternately, the onset of psychosis might have made me overly enthusiastic about supplements.

I had trouble with electrolyte balance the first time I did Induction-the heart flutters, leg cramps etc.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, May-29-15, 19:18
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,856
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Well, teaser, you make your case! Watch out messing with supplements without professional supervision. Thanks for the personal experience.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, May-30-15, 02:46
ojoj's Avatar
ojoj ojoj is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,184
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
Progress: 101%
Location: South of England
Default

I dont take any suppliments - Occasionally I take coQ10 and if I get leg cramps (I occasionally do, but its more to do with standing alot and the shoes I wear I think) I take some potassium. Apart from that, there are some multi vitamins in the back of our medicine cabinet lol - I hate to think how old they are. I dont seem to be lacking???!!

Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution has been my bible too, but I always felt his references to vitamins etc was more to do with appeasing the media/health professionals??!


Jo xxx
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, May-30-15, 05:37
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,448
 
Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
Default

Something I meant to mention at the end of my post--while I got those electrolyte problems the first time I did induction, later on after that first failure, when I tried eating the same way again, I was fine.

I don't think an Atkin's style diet or even a slightly more ketogenic version is necessarily deficient in anything. At least not compared to a higher carb diet. Most of the foods that are removed aren't all that nutrient-dense in the first place, unless they're fortified.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, May-30-15, 06:04
ojoj's Avatar
ojoj ojoj is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,184
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
Progress: 101%
Location: South of England
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I don't think an Atkin's style diet or even a slightly more ketogenic version is necessarily deficient in anything. At least not compared to a higher carb diet. Most of the foods that are removed aren't all that nutrient-dense in the first place, unless they're fortified.


Thats always been my thoughts. Compared to the junk I ate before - Much more healthy and nutritious

Jo xxx
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, May-31-15, 07:52
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,856
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Hey--there's a Nutrition and Supplements Forum! Who knew? Pays to check out the list now and then.

I sat down and thoroughly read (or re-read) the general narrative portions of Atkins's Vita-Nutrient Solution, and checked out the detail for some of the supps that might be of interest to me (or that I already take).

I observed that, as a medical doctor, Atkins is presenting his case for nutrient solutions rather than standard pharmaceutical solutions as the starting place for the healing of many, many common chronic problems. I'm on board with that.

I discovered--or rediscovered--the reasons why, for a long time, I've already been taking certain things like COQ10, Alpha-Lipoic acid, and chromium picolinate, and certain vitamins. I checked the dosages I take against Atkins's recommendations.

I concluded that, since I don't have any chronic diseases or conditions that I know of (other than mild hypothyroid and fairly advanced aging), I probably don't need to worry about vita-nutrient solutions beyond what I do now.

Case closed.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jun-05-15, 15:13
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,002
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

I have found supplements to be HUGELY important. I take 10K of vitamin D3 every day, and about two months into doing that, I got a sense of wellbeing. It also had an effect on me being sick... I still get sick, but instead of hideous symptoms, I just get very very tired. I'm also a believer in chelated magnesium.

Then I got into a health crisis, and what helped pull me out was the right supplements; Lipo-C, pregnenolone, B complex, and now curcumin and megadoses of niacin.

When I started Atkins I took chromium picolinate and selenium, but with both of those you "top up" and you stop for a while.

It don't think of it as "expensive urine" at all. They have been literally lifesaving. It would be one thing if all of us had been eating right all these years.

But there are very few who can say that.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jun-05-15, 23:56
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 7,896
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
I've just finished re-reading my LC Bible from cover to cover: Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution (paperback published in 1999).

In this edition, he references his practice of Complementary Medicine, and the use of nutritional supplements. He has one chapter called "Nutritional Supplements--The Secrets of the Atkins Center." However, he refers readers to his book Vita-Nutrient Solution for details.

I own this book, too, and have referred to it from time to time for specific purposes. However, I have never taken seriously Dr. Atkins's advice to consult a sympathetic health care professional in order to embark on a personal plan for optimum use of supplements for ongoing health management. For one thing, I wouldn't know whom to consult. For another, his recommendations are HUGE, and I'm not sure I need to make that kind of investment for what some people would call very expensive urine.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has done so? What was your outcome?

For the record, I do take a few supplements, as guided by my doc over the years: multi-vitamin, calcium + D, glucosamine, CoQ10, fish oil, alpha lipoic acid (that's one on Atkins's list), chromium picolinate (also Atkins-advised), magnesium (recently added). I can't particularly know if these substances are "working" because I don't have any health problems! Sometimes it feels like clapping my hands to keep the tigers away. See? No tigers!

Anyway, since Vita-nutrients are such a big deal for Dr. Atkins, I'm curious about the experience of others. Please tell me your supplement story.

Best wishes.


Vita-Nutrient Solution
Enjoying this book again tonight.
Thanks for bringing it up Barbara!
Dr. Atkins was so ahead of his time........
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jun-06-15, 08:21
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,856
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

WereBear, thanks for the report on your positive experience.
Quote:
Then I got into a health crisis, and what helped pull me out was the right supplements; Lipo-C, pregnenolone, B complex, and now curcumin and megadoses of niacin.
How did you decide on these? Did you have advice from a complementary medicine professional, or did you just educate yourself?

Meme, happy reading. Yes, I think Dr. Atkins was a true pioneer--even though he always gave credit to many practitioners and researchers (particularly those in pre-war Germany) who established the evidence for low-carb benefits long before he got on the bandwagon with his bestseller. If I had bigger health challenges, I would definitely be in correspondence with his clinic in NYC, or with his "disciples" in North Carolina and elsewhere, Westman, et al.

Best wishes.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jun-06-15, 09:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,002
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
WereBear, thanks for the report on your positive experience. How did you decide on these? Did you have advice from a complementary medicine professional, or did you just educate yourself?


Online research and trial and error. My above post left out an even larger number of supplements that didn't seem to do anything Then again, who knows if that course of Bee Pollen didn't help in some way? Then when I zeroed in on inflammation as the key to my problem, I chose herbs (I combined Devil's Claw and White Willow Bark) and supplements with that in mind.

I can't afford a complementary medicine professional. They are not covered under insurance. It's such a product of our times that I can fall into a combine and be put back together with a far greater expectation of expertise than I can to get help with life-threatening hormone dysfunction. Basically, medicine only recognizes when you are completely OUT or have a huge EXCESS of a hormone and then, only a few particular ones. Anything else they think is just whining.

I got a lot of procedures from Dr. Jack Kruse's protocols, but not anything about supplements. He has a battery of tests to do and then supplement, and it needs a doctor willing to both do the tests and prescribe. While my GP will do tests for me, he wants to send me to an endocrinologist for prescribing, and I know they won't do it. Once again, if I walked in as a pituitary giant, or was in the process of dying of Addison's, I might get some help. And when I did get prescribed HRT, the non-biological nature of it turned out to be part of my problem. That could be solved with bio-identicals -- which insurance won't pay for.

So I looked up people struggling with what is usually called Adrenal Fatigue, and looked up the supplements they said they were using, and if it sounded applicable to my situation, I tried it. As I learned more about what was going on with me, I sought out supplements designed to prop up the dysfunctional processes.

Pregnenolone is a dramatic addition that did me a huge amount of good, and continues to do so. It's a hormone precursor. It helps my body make whatever hormones it needs. The kind of bio-identical I can afford! (Pregnenolone production decreases with age. It's worth thinking about for anyone over 50. Likewise, our ability to make our own D diminishes with age. So supplementing makes sense.)

But even if we are in good health, there are what I think of as Universal Supplements; things we just don't get enough of, because of our poor food quality from farming & food lot practices that don't care about the final product, just that they get it out there. Vitamin D, lots of C, B complex, chelated magnesium, and sea salt for trace minerals are all good, cheap, choices for supplementation that do a lot to support that good health if we already have it.

But I don't believe in a multi-vitamin. To me, that is wasted money. It's all tiny amounts designed to stave off things like pellagra and scurvy and goiter. I'm not worried about those.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jun-06-15, 13:45
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,856
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Thank you for the long discussion. Very helpful.
Quote:
But I don't believe in a multi-vitamin.
Well, that never occurred to me! I was eyeing the B Complex supplements the other day, and thinking that might be a good way to go. I'll give some thought to what's in my multi and how it might be replaced with more targeted supplementation.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jun-06-15, 14:17
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 7,896
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

One good thing I learned in this book is that Potassium is so very important.
There are three pages on Potassium but of the many things he talks about one caught my eye is that when potassium in low, there is a greater risk of life-threatening arrhythmias, heart failure and stroke. hmmm don't want any of that....

Pot's main duty of to maintaining the proper function of our cell walls. It's second duty is to support the concentration of Magnesium, a major heart nutrient.

It talks about water pills depleting the potassium and many people take those, not me but many.
He recommended eating foods with higher potassium which are almonds, halibut, cod, turkey, chicken breast, and sirloin. Some veggies are mushrooms, chard, and spinach. Fruits he recommended are Cantaloupe and Avocados.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Jun-07-15, 08:35
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 8,856
 
Plan: Atkins/LCHF
Stats: 195/149.7/135 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Quote:
He recommended eating foods with higher potassium which are almonds, halibut, cod, turkey, chicken breast, and sirloin. Some veggies are mushrooms, chard, and spinach. Fruits he recommended are Cantaloupe and Avocados.
Good to know! I'm the Popeye of spinach. I buy it by the boatload, one reason being that if I don't eat it immediately (rare) it doesn't go to mush in the fridge like other leafies.

Yesterday I bought a big bag of mixed leafies at Costco: spinach, chard, kale. Looks like I'm on the right track. Made a salad with mushrooms in it, too. I wish avocados weren't so expensive by the "each" at my regular grocery store. $1.29 last I looked. I'd like to buy them by the bag at Costco, but speaking of going to mush! I'd have to make a whole lot of guacamole.
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