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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 10:30
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default LCHF vs. Ketogenic - What are your results?

I realized over the last few months, that I had been unintentionally restricting fat, so I started adding. Low and behold... I started losing weight after a three month stall.

My question is the comparison between LCHF and Keto. The basic seems to be you need to be in ketosis with both, but in Keto you also count/track calories? Is that a simplistic assessment?

Does anyone have experience with both diets, and if so, can you share your results? I've been tracking in My PLAN for a few weeks, and will continue, as I also noted I rarely eat over 1400 calories. Trying to figure out if I should up the fat, or stay the course now that I'm slowly dropping again.

Thanks!
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 11:35
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Right, I've been in both, and it's almost like the difference between succulents and cacti. Nearly all cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti.

Eating ketogenic is eating LCHF; however, it's a very controlled form of LCHF in that you must keep your daily carb intake low to transition into ketosis. General rule of thumb is to keep your carb intake below 50 grams per day. Some stay much lower, say <20 or <10 grams per day because it works better for them. What works better? Being in ketosis, which is the goal for a ketogenic WOE.

LCHF is a WOE where you can be in ketosis or not depending on how you limit daily carbs. So LCFH is like a succulent, and ketogenic is like a cacti in that being in ketosis is always LCHF and moderate protein.

I've been LCHF for over 10 years, but became more strict with my carb intake last spring and eliminated all grains and maintained a daily carb intake around or below 5-15 grams per day. That enabled me to transition into ketosis, and the result was a much faster weight loss, clearer thinking, better moods, and an increase in general overall feeling of health. So, I practice the ketogenic approach, and it's become my standard WOE.

My stats represent the time period when I started the ketogenic approach, and my daily macros are approximately 70% fat, 20% protein, and 10% carbs. Adding fat was important, but keeping carbs low was also a big factor for me. I get most of my carbs from vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, salads, and sometimes nuts. I stay away from all fruit, grains, and starch foods like root vegetables, beans, and legumes. It works for me.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Tue, Mar-03-15 at 11:51.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 12:48
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,187
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Trying to figure out why LCHF isn't ketogenic. It generally is. Do you mean LCLF?
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 12:48
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default

Thanks for the input. I have been under 40 carbs for over a year, and since I'm a turtle, I lose between 2-3 lbs a month. I am hoping with my recent results in upping my fat intake, that I might have stumbled upon the fact my body might like ketogenic, for losses at least.

It's hard for me to get enough food in, because I'm one of the lucky/unlucky people who don't get hungry. Charting my intake has been a real struggle, and it looks like I might need to do it long term. I know that I was taking in less than 1000 calories and under 20 carbs for quite some time, which is probably why I stalled.

After years of people saying I was overeating, when in fact, I hardly ate, its hard to force yourself to indulge - no matter how good it tastes. I hope picking a better plan than just keeping carbs down to 20 will help me along with that battle.

I've been doing basic low carbing for years with good maintenance, but no loss. It's time to get rid of some of the extra baggage.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 12:51
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default

Nancy, I'm not saying LCHF isn't ketogenic, only that online they seem to be considered two different diets. I'm trying to differentiate between their finer points so I head in the right direction.

From what I've read to date, keto tracks everything, whereas those that I know LCHF only count carbs. Ketosis was vital for loss in both.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 12:57
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Some who eat LCHF don't necessarily transition to how we have recently defined dietary ketosis in terms of blood ketone measurement - >0.5mmol and <5.0mmol.

Some, I was one, who eat LCHF may not be in ketosis which is the indicator that your body favors fat over glucose for fuel. I was eating LCHF, and I suspect some influence of carbs and protein kept me from getting there. Some can't get to ketosis unless they strictly limit carb intake well below the guidelines of <50g per day. I benefited from LCHF without being in ketosis, but I realized more benefits when I established ketosis as a goal. I believe many who started Atkins years ago went out of ketosis after induction due to eating more protein than fat and had a glucose source from the protein via gluconeogenesis. I've learned a lot since then.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:13
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 1,775
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leelanau
Thanks for the input. I have been under 40 carbs for over a year, and since I'm a turtle, I lose between 2-3 lbs a month. I am hoping with my recent results in upping my fat intake, that I might have stumbled upon the fact my body might like ketogenic, for losses at least.

It's hard for me to get enough food in, because I'm one of the lucky/unlucky people who don't get hungry. Charting my intake has been a real struggle, and it looks like I might need to do it long term. I know that I was taking in less than 1000 calories and under 20 carbs for quite some time, which is probably why I stalled.

After years of people saying I was overeating, when in fact, I hardly ate, its hard to force yourself to indulge - no matter how good it tastes. I hope picking a better plan than just keeping carbs down to 20 will help me along with that battle.

I've been doing basic low carbing for years with good maintenance, but no loss. It's time to get rid of some of the extra baggage.

From your positive progress by increasing fat, it sounds like you could benefit from more healthy fat and to make sure you're not eating too much protein. It sounds like your able to limit your carbs with no cravings. What an advantage! One of the things that I had to do was figure out a strategy to consume more fat without making my meals a spectacle! So, I started relying on coconut oil and grass-fed butter and used them in beverages and for cooking. BPC and smoothies, when I don't have a fatty meal in store take up the slack nicely. You can add fat to broth and many other things to keep your macros where they need to be.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:18
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default

I've been adding coconut oil to my coffee randomly for a while, but I am definitely going to have to try this bulletproof coffee I keep reading about.

I do have the carb cravings, especially for ice cream. It's hard to walk away, but even only having a treat a couple times a month, I wasn't losing. I used to be able to have a splurge meal once a week, but that seems to stall me out now too. My struggle this week is walking cold-turkey away from diet soda. I have only had one in two weeks, and that was a ginger ale because I felt a tickle of a cold, and its a family remedy.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 16:03
Lessara's Avatar
Lessara Lessara is offline
Everyday Sane Psycho
Posts: 7,075
 
Plan: Bernstein, Keto IFast
Stats: 385/253/160 Female 67.5
BF:14d bsl 400/122/83
Progress: 59%
Location: Durham, NH
Default

I've done Atkins and currently on Keto IF. I found out the hard way to stop cravings and being constantly hungry I needed to up my fat. That was my mistake with Atkins. Then to keep to 1600 calories I lowered my carbs to 15g with +5g if I need too. but never more than 20g. My cravings and hunger stopped driving me. so much so that I can now do intermittent fasting, which helps reduce insulin resistance (hopefully) but its dropping my blood sugar faster than Keto alone.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 05:35
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default

Lessara, I see you have listed Bernstein. Are you diabetic as well? I was diagnosed Type II 15 years ago, and before that reactive hypoglycemic.

I have more problem keeping my blood sugar stable when I fast, as it drops hard. I spent years eating one meal a day, and I'm still trying to reset my metabolism, so fasting isn't on the radar. I'm afraid it would set me back to the beginning.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 05:49
LosingMe16 LosingMe16 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 519
 
Plan: VLC/High Fat
Stats: 234/165.4/150 Female 69"
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: Florida
Default

Ketogenic is an extremely strict form of LCHF - not all LCHF diets make it into the spectrum of "ketogenic" just because everyone's carb and protein threshold is different. The only way to guarantee your macros are in the range of ketogenic *for you* is blood testing regularly for ketones (urine sticks are useless). Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Dr. Westman was on sale yesterday on the Amazon store for $0.99; it's a good read regarding nutritional ketosis and how individualized it can be because of metabolic variables from person to person...

Since I have never tested blood ketones, all I have ever done is a generalized LCHF regimen. I generally try to add extra fats with most everything I eat or in my coffee. It is entirely possible what I do is ketogenic, but without testing myself I really do not know. I haven't lost much weight in the last year, but I am in the high range of what is considered "normal" for my height at this point so I am not very concerned with losing much - as long as I'm not packing on the pounds I'm pretty happy. A generalized approach worked very well for me; I lost most of my weight in the first six to eight months with a very slow loss of maybe 15-20 lbs more in the following year and a half.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 06:03
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,315
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Ketogenic may be a stricter form of LCHF, but the term can also be applied to the therapeutic diets used for epilepsy and Cancer. Macros can be tailored later for the individual, but they usually start off VERY LC and VERY HF. If following Seyfried's version, blood ketones are monitored and a glucose and ketone ratio index must be achieved. When I tried it, what I had thought was a strict ketogenic diet was a walk in the park compared to what he prescribes.

Ps: KetoClarity is still 99 cents at 8am est. it could disappear any minute, but sometimes these 24 hour sales linger.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Mar-04-15 at 06:11.
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 16:28
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default

I bought the e-book yesterday morning as soon as it posted. I hope there are others out there that get the chance for that price.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Mar-06-15, 13:37
leelanau leelanau is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 433
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 288/224.8/180 Female 66 in
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: MI
Default

Reading through the book, but decided to go online and try a bunch of different keto macros calculators. My oh my! Very different results, with a bunch of differing opinions on level of proteins being safe, and some never even asked how tall I was, or if I was female!

Found it interesting to say the least.... not informative per say, but interesting.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Mar-07-15, 04:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 9,315
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Which is why ketoClarity explains how to find the level of protein that works for YOU. It requires a ketone meter and patience, so you burn through some expensive ketone strips, but more accurate than any KetoGenic calculator.
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