Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Cholesterol, Heart Disease
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 11:04
newlowc newlowc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 451
 
Plan: Bernstein/Atkins
Stats: 275/265/190 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 12%
Location: SOCAL
Default Why shouldn't I take statins?

It seems every year that I start this WOE , I run into problems with lipids. At the time this was taken, 1/30/2015, I was in good ketosis, losing weight almost daily.

I usually can fight the doctor when she wants to put me on statins, but this time she convinced me that I was a heart attack/stroke waiting to happen!

She prescribed something called Cholestyramine light, with nutrasweet. I don't know if it is the placebo effect, but I felt better after taking it for a week, now I am not so sure.

The last time my numbers were good was in 2012, when I was in a good place diet wise. Here are my numbers from this year, a lot of coco oil, and butter in the diet because I am really aiming for high fat, moderate protein.

What is the definitive source I should read to calm my fears? thanks.



Component Standard Range Your Value
CHOLESTEROL <=199 mg/dL 251
TRIGLYCERIDE <=149 mg/dL 213
HDL >=40 mg/dL 33
LDL CALCULATED <=99 mg/dL 175
CHOLESTEROL/HIGH DENSITY LIPOPROTEIN <=4.9 7.6
CHOLESTEROL, NON-HDL 218
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 12:52
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
It seems every year that I start this WOE , I run into problems with lipids


This may be your problem. Sometimes things can get worse, before they get better. Increased lipolysis when starting the diet equals an increased turnover of fat, this can paradoxically increase triglycerides and other lipids early on. You really need long-term consistency for full benefit.


http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/...sterol-went-up/

Quote:
I lost weight and my cholesterol . . . went up!

By Dr. Davis | June 5, 2012

This is a fairly common observation around these parts: “I eliminated wheat from my diet and have limited my consumption of junk carbohydrates like corn and sugars. I lost 38 pounds over three months and I feel great. I initially lost weight rapidly, but have more recently slowed to about 1-2 pounds per week. But my doctor checked some lab values and he flipped! He said that my HDL dropped, my triglycerides went up, and my blood sugar went up 20 points! He wants me to take a statin drug and metformin for my high blood sugar. What gives?”

Easy: You are losing weight. Let me explain.

When you lose weight, you are mobilizing energy stored as fat. That fat is mobilized as fatty acids and triglycerides into the bloodstream. 10 pounds lost, for instance, means the equivalent of 35,000 calories of fat released into the bloodstream.

These fatty acids are not alone. They interact with the other elements in the bloodstream. In particular, this flood of fatty acids:

–Block insulin–and thereby increase blood sugar. A non-diabetic can even become transiently diabetic during weight loss.
–Increase triglycerides–A starting triglyceride level of, say, 120 mg/dl, can increase to 180 mg/dl during active weight loss. (Triglycerides contain fatty acids.)
–Decreased HDL–Excess fatty acids and triglycerides modify HDL particles, causing their degradation and elimination. A starting HDL of 45 mg/dl can drop to 28 mg/dl, for example.
–LDL measures go haywire–The conventional calculated LDL cholesterol, or even generally superior measures like apoprotein B or NMR LDL particle number, can go in any direction rather unpredictably: They can go up, down, or sideways. Likewise, the (miserably useless) total cholesterol value can go up, down, or sideways.
–Increased blood pressure–This is likely due to the enhanced artery constriction that occurs due to increased endothelial dysfunction, i.e., dysfunction of the normal relaxation mechanisms of arteries.

The key is to recognize these phenomena as nothing more than part of weight loss and the inevitable mobilization of fatty acids into the bloodstream. Accordingly, decisions should not be made based on these values, since they are transient. Your doctor will likely try to push hypertension medication, statin drugs, fibrate drugs, diabetes drugs . . . all for a transient effect. Is there a way to not experience these changes? Sure: liposuction. To my knowledge, there is no way short of extracting fat with a trocar to avoid these changes.

As a practical matter, avoid having blood drawn until weight has plateaued for at least 4 weeks and these changes are allowed to reverse. Only then will you know what you have achieved in your wheat-free adventure.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:14
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,425
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:35
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,861
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I've compiled a list on Diigo about statins and cholesterol. Feel free to click the link in my signature.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:45
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,305
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

The Great Cholesterol Con by Malcolm Kendrick

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Cholest...Cholesterol+con
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:59
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuj6nxCDBZ0

Quote:
The Cholesterol Conundrum - and Root Cause Solution


Good video.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 15:35
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by newlowc
What is the definitive source I should read to calm my fears? thanks.
I have studied this in depth. There are many, many, many studies that give conflicting results. The vast majority support the use of statins but who financed that study? There is no definitive source IMO. You have to put in the hours of research and decide for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 21:41
newlowc newlowc is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 451
 
Plan: Bernstein/Atkins
Stats: 275/265/190 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 12%
Location: SOCAL
Default

Thank you to you all, some of you need to write your own books!
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 09:14
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,861
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

People always want black and white, but you don't get those sorts of answers with science.

A lot of people bought into the cholesterol theory of heart disease and they will believe it, tout it, defend it, until they die (of something) no matter what doubt is cast on it.

Other folks find plenty wrong with it.

Reporters publish whatever looks most sensationalistic and will grab readers.

Lots of patients implicitly trust what their doctors tell them, or willingly follow authority figures without question. Others say... "All those people doing this can't possibly wrong" and join the herd. It gains momentum and becomes a stampede.

A few people will look at evidence on both sides and then decide which one is most likely to be true.

So those are the things you need to consider. Plus you might also do some research and see if your doctor is accepting bribes from drug companies.

I think there's a link to the data from 2013 in this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ng-he-left-out/

Watch the John Oliver video. He was awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 13:42
argee's Avatar
argee argee is offline
Inconceivable!
Posts: 112
 
Plan: DANDR '72
Stats: 205/169/155 Male 69.5"
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: Michigan, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
Good video.


I agree. Thought me quite a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 14:11
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Others say... "All those people doing this can't possibly wrong" and join the herd. It gains momentum and becomes a stampede.[/url]
And it's like that on both sides of this fence!! So frustrating trying to tease out what is true. I think it's unknowable actually. That's why I have been going with what I have seen work in my own family. For now anyway...CKD diagnosis makes me want to quit all pharmaceuticals. But I don't want to take myself back to a pre-modern medicine lifespan! lol

I've already outlived that by about 20 years...
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 15:22
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,861
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
A few people will look at evidence on both sides and then decide which one is most likely to be true.

I assumed you were in that category.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 17:08
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I assumed you were in that category.

And you were right
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Tue, Mar-17-15, 04:05
Oldbird's Avatar
Oldbird Oldbird is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 362
 
Plan: Low carb.
Stats: 190/183/146 Female 63.5
BF:
Progress: 16%
Location: Northumberland, England.
Default

On my doctors advice I tried statins - first brand, awful muscle pain, second brand, awful muscle pain! The heart is a muscle. I was warned if I did not take them I could have a heart attack or stroke within ten years, I am now 82 and no longer taking statins and have no muscle pain.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Tue, Mar-17-15, 06:14
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,425
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Here's the newest study Mike referred to on statins and prostate cancer:
http://healthydietsandscience.blogs...vated-risk.html

16 and 25% increase in risk ... Big numbers!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:07.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.