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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 10:30
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
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Default "The Invention That Could End Obesity"

Quote:
A Michigan surgeon invented an apparatus that he believes tricks the brain into thinking the stomach is full. His Full Sense Device could be a lifesaver for millions of obese Americans and raises questions about how hunger — our most basic human impulse — even works. http://www.buzzfeed.com/joeloliphin...sity#.iybY9AAdn



Quote:
Dr. Baker has come up with a nonsurgical device that he says will enable obese patients to lose substantial weight, and at a fraction of the cost of surgery — in the neighborhood of $5,000 at an outpatient center. A company claiming to have found a simple solution to drastic, easy weight loss is, of course, nothing new; in fact, it’s big business. (See: late-night infomercials.) Some surgeons and researchers are skeptical of Baker’s pressure theory, and at least one patient experienced chronic acid reflux after the device was inserted. But more than 10 years after the eureka moment, Baker is hopeful that doctors in Europe could begin using the Full Sense Device this year and in Canada and Mexico soon after. Americans will have to wait longer; Food and Drug Administration approval is unpredictable and likely still years away. Baker’s concern, though, is that the Full Sense Device might work too well. If it’s effective, easy, and cheap, what’s to stop people from abusing it?

“When this hits the market, there’s not going to be just 10,000 to 15,000 people having it,” says Fred Walburn, president and sole employee of Full Sense Device’s parent company, BFKW. “There’s going to be hundreds of thousands. Millions per year.”
...


Quote:
Current plans would allow the device to remain for up to six months before removal, though in the future that time may be longer. In the company’s trials, every patient implanted with the device lost weight and continued to lose weight until the device was removed. Baker calls the phenomenon “implied satiety.” At six months, average patients lost 75% of their excess body weight — significantly more and at a faster rate than any bariatric procedure, and all, Baker says, with no “severe adverse side effects.”
...

Quote:
Though the concept of hunger may seem simple, it isn’t, nor is it understood entirely. Scientists haven’t pinned down exactly how the stomach communicates with the brain. The interaction between gut hormones and the nervous system is key — ghrelin and leptin, for instance, act on neural components of hunger — but there isn’t a complete set of answers for how the gut regulates appetite.

There’s also no consensus as to how or why bariatric surgery often leads to dramatic weight loss and diabetic improvements (or why sometimes it doesn’t). Most bariatric surgeons were taught that the procedures lead to weight loss through restriction and/or malabsorption, and many still hold fast to those two explanations. The restriction theory says that the surgeries lead to weight loss by limiting the amount of food the body can hold. Malabsorption — when something is bypassed to reduce absorption of calories — is also thought to play a role in gastric bypass. But research from the past few years suggests that there are, at the very least, more things going on.

What makes a gastric bypass patient eat less, Baker theorizes, is that it takes less food to put enough pressure on the stomach so that it sends neurological and hormonal signals to the brain saying, “I’m full.”
“People used to think satiety was on or off,” Baker says. “You’re hungry or you’re not hungry.” But Baker says it’s actually a continuum. When there’s nothing in the stomach you have hunger, then you progress to “not hungry,” then levels of fullness, then nausea, then vomiting. “The more pressure you put on,” he says, “the higher you get up that cycle.”

Randy Seeley, the University of Michigan researcher, has a different take. “It’s very clear that restriction and malabsorption have little to do with how surgery works,” says Seeley. His research points instead to the importance of gut bacteria — particularly the hormonal action of bile acids — after surgery.
...

Quote:
Baker agrees that gut bacteria and hormones are important, but thinks the stomach’s upper portion is the gut’s brain, which sets other processes in motion. Still, many questions remain regarding the roles restriction, malabsorption, pressure, hormones, and nerves play in bariatric surgery, and the answers will likely determine whether the Full Sense Device is a legitimate, long-term alternative to weight-loss surgery.



One thing that surprised me about this was how lengthy, expensive and involved the FDA approval process is for a device like this. Whereas the surgeon could insert an esophageal stent without approval apparently.

There was a time when I was morbidly obese and just. could. not. get. motivated. to low carb or anything else AGAIN. I might have been interested in a device like this, except for the expense of course. Never mind the weight loss, just the 6 month "reprieve" would have sounded good. But I also think that weight loss itself is a motivator too. The hardest thing usually for me has been to get started and keep going after the start when 10-20-30+ lbs didn't seem to count for much.

In the comment section, which seemed somewhat less knee jerk and cliched than usual, btw, someone said that this guy would be bought out sooner or later and then the device would be buried because weight loss is such big business. The cynic in me thinks he may have a point.

Last edited by JLx : Tue, Mar-03-15 at 17:20. Reason: typo
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 10:56
M Levac M Levac is offline
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It sounds like a sales pitch. Makes a whole lotta sense. No surgery, and it agrees with CICO. 5,000$

Meanwhile, there's no sales pitch for low-carb. Makes a whole lotta sense. No surgery, and it agrees with genuine science. 0$
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 11:56
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teaser teaser is offline
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Maybe there's something there. Low carb is great, no doubt about that. But if low carb doesn't work for somebody--whether because of some metabolic quirk, carbohydrate addiction, or simple refusal--there's still a need for other alternatives.

It doesn't really agree with CICO.

Quote:
Lauria didn’t have an explanation; she told Baker she simply wasn’t hungry anymore. Baker wondered if he and other bariatric surgeons had been going at it all wrong. The stent, he theorized, was putting pressure at the top of Lauria’s pouch and sending signals to her brain saying, “I’m full.” It was doing what food does, but without actual food.


I don't think this is about forcing people to eat less--it's sending a signal to the body that it's better fed than it actually is, this causes the body to be less frugal with its stored nutrients, and that decreases appetite.

But there's a problem in the false signal. You can administer leptin to the hypothalamus, and a mouse will deplete nearly all of its fat stores. But this also causes a sort of osteoporosis. Which makes the theory of central regulation of body weight seem silly to me--the brain reacts to signals from the body, and the body to signals from the brain. If the body or the brain is sending false signals, that could lead to unintended consequences.

I forget. Which side was I on here?
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:08
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Quote:
It was doing what food does, but without actual food.

Well, low-carb does the same thing, with actual food. If low-carb doesn't work, we've discovered the existence of a problem that needs to be addressed with something other than a gizmo. In no situation does this gizmo serve a purpose, in my opinion.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:22
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I don't think this is about forcing people to eat less--it's sending a signal to the body that it's better fed than it actually is, this causes the body to be less frugal with its stored nutrients, and that decreases appetite.

But there's a problem in the false signal. You can administer leptin to the hypothalamus, and a mouse will deplete nearly all of its fat stores. But this also causes a sort of osteoporosis. Which makes the theory of central regulation of body weight seem silly to me--the brain reacts to signals from the body, and the body to signals from the brain. If the body or the brain is sending false signals, that could lead to unintended consequences.

Excellent point. The thing that concerns me when limited knowledge allows us to mess with the decision making apparatus in the body that, usually as a later or final step, regulates hunger, is the potential price that is paid for not allowing the body to go through the whole metabolic cycle. We do it with cholesterol, blood pressure, diabetes, and many other diseases where we take care of the most annoying symptom or outcome without recognizing the hidden damage that could result from short circuiting the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
Well, low-carb does the same thing, with actual food. If low-carb doesn't work, we've discovered the existence of a problem that needs to be addressed with something other than a gizmo. In no situation does this gizmo serve a purpose, in my opinion.

Right there with you on this.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:39
M Levac M Levac is offline
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I infer from that device that it should be installed in everybody from birth to prevent obesity. The inference is deduced from a) the problem is an inability to register the signal which food should produce, or an outright lack of this signal, b) they don't know the cause of this disorder, and assume it must be an innate defect, c) an external intervention is the only alternative.

I see a big giant problem with the idea behind that gizmo. If it actually does what the guy theorized ("The stent, he theorized, was putting pressure at the top of Lauria’s pouch") then why doesn't food do it? The only logical conclusion is that even though food does it as the stent is theorized to do it - by putting pressure on the top of Lauria's pouch - it also inhibits the signal from doing its job down the line, therefore it ain't actually food. Cuz the same theory says food does it. The gizmo - unlike fake food - does not have the capacity to inhibit the signal down the line.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 13:59
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bkloots bkloots is offline
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Default

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading about this. The inventor seems like a sincere, resourceful kinda guy. Regardless of "how" it works, I think it beats bypass surgery by miles. Unfortunately, the recidivism record for these types of intervention seems to be seriously high.

Quote:
Researcher Randy Seeley has similar concerns. “I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that when you take it out, people will gain the weight back,” Seeley says. “People want to think they’ll be so happy as a lean person that they’ll learn to be lean. And therefore, once they experience what it’s like to be leaner, they’re gonna stay lean. And that just doesn’t happen. There’s a reason why there’s no reunion shows for all the people who’ve been on The Biggest Loser.”


Although CICO might be a flawed theory, there's no doubt in my mind that a permanent change in weight requires a permanent change in eating habits--quantity, quality, timing, or something else. If you're obese, you've probably got an "incurable" challenge. You have to deal with it intellectually, not automatically, and also forever, not just for a short time.

"Eat anything you want and still lose weight!" is the classic sell for quackery. It works.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 14:12
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teaser teaser is offline
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Well, if the adverse side effects do turn out to be worth the results--I guess the period of reduced appetite, while the device is present, could be used to become accustomed to the sort of foods that would make maintenance easier when the device is removed. Reduced appetite ought to make it easier to stick to eating better foods while losing the weight. Six months of eating smaller portions of the SAD probably wouldn't work, you'd just eat more of the same junk when appetite returned.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 14:22
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Whirrlly Whirrlly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
there's no doubt in my mind that a permanent change in weight requires a permanent change in eating habits--quantity, quality, timing, or something else. If you're obese, you've probably got an "incurable" challenge. You have to deal with it intellectually, not automatically, and also forever, not just for a short time.

"Eat anything you want and still lose weight!" is the classic sell for quackery. It works.


X2 well said

OP---I think it is changing the habits/food knowledge that are important. fooling the body can work short term, if you do not change the mind/demons/addiction to food then you have nothing after but gaining back all that was lost.

When things are handed to people, without them doing the hard work, most times the long term is not good. People won't 'work then' to stay lean, if the device did it for them, why bother trying after you are leaner, I mean you are then just as hungry as you were before the device, nothing has changed truly.

this is no different than weight loss surgery. the after---either you learn to eat different for life and hold that course---or you gain back. simple. that device will make one lose weight---after is the big question. I don't feel it is any different than the options out there, just cheaper to perform. Another weight loss angle that doesn't truly address the maintenance at all.

People can lose weight a zillion ways. Keeping it off is the part most do not succeed.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Mar-03-15, 15:23
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bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
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Quote:
Six months of eating smaller portions of the SAD probably wouldn't work, you'd just eat more of the same junk when appetite returned.
Right.

Quote:
People can lose weight a zillion ways. Keeping it off is the part most do not succeed.
That would be me. That's why I'm here. Again. Still!
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 10:47
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jessdamess jessdamess is offline
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I took phentermine a couple years ago to trick my body into feeling full. I lost 40lbs. I had to stop taking it after 3mo as it becomes habit-forming after that period. Guess what happened? I gained it all back.

I see the same issue with this device. Can you wear it forever? No. The same people who gain back after phentermine, or gain after their barbaric surgery settles down, or can't stay on WW forever, will not be better off from this as it isn't permanent. Sure, they'll lose weight. They'll be eating less. But what keeps the weight from being regained? Nothing. IMO it's just another quick-fix that will set most people up for failure long term. Unless during that period they suddenly find a sustainable WOE while simultaneously healing all their food-relationship issues. How likely is that? It can be done, as I know many here and elsewhere who have figured this out. Not everyone is going to be there after their 6mo is up. Most won't have had a come-to-Jesus epiphany or discovered a diet like LC that they can do forever.

The people that wouldn't regain after it is removed are the ones who don't need it in the first place.

So the short version of my opinion on it is-- meh Just another way to separate someone desperate from their money. But I'm cynical like that.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-04-15, 18:09
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rightnow rightnow is offline
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Ongoing insufficiency of nutrients is bad. It doesn't help to be thinner if one ends up dying of something else due to the side effects of trying to be thin. Being fat is better than being dead.

PJ
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Mar-05-15, 06:27
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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It's still based on calories and volume of food and that's not what causes overweight; it's a hormone thing. Now, eating less automatically means less carbs, as wise people pointed out a while back. So while it works, kinda, it's not going to help anyone in the long run.

I've lost weight by starving myself. I did it for years. So did Shelley Winters, and she blamed it for her later in life, unbudgeable, weight problems. So you take someone resistant to losing weight, and mess with their metabolism further?

I see no good coming from that.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Mar-05-15, 07:57
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Benay Benay is offline
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We constantly look for a weight loss solution that takes little effort on our part. In my experience, low carb isn't enough--portion control is still needed. Both require self control and constant decision making. This device is better option than bariatric surgery and can be discontinued. But it does interrupt normal body functions with who know what results. Also, many of us eat when we are not hungry.

As heard in 'Anna and the King of Siam' "this is a puzzlement."
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Mar-05-15, 08:04
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bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
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Quote:
It's still based on calories and volume of food and that's not what causes overweight; it's a hormone thing.
Sigh. Yes. And y'know, there's still a lot of advice on this forum about "cutting calories" to speed up weight loss, to end a stall, to continue maintenance. I have such mixed feelings about all that.

Yes, metabolism is about utilizing energy. Yes, we measure food energy as "calories" even though the calculation of food "calories" isn't the same as the body's metabolic usage of "calories" of energy. So...how do we determine our own particular, individual energy management system? Trial and error, I think. That is, different diets, different calculations, tracking nutrients, etc. over time--a lifetime for some of us.

So...I don't "believe in" counting calories as a fundamental weight management tool. The helpful, almost automatic, control of appetite, craving, addiction, and portions that derives from carbohydrate management--in other words, a qualitative approach--works much better for many people, even those without metabolic issues. LC deals with the biochemistry of fat accumulation at the cellular level.

Shrinking the stomach by any means, or messing with its sensory capacity, can only be a temporary measure, like appetite-reducing drugs. Back in the 90s, my helpful doc prescribed phen/fen for me--long before the outrageous consequences became known to the general public. I'd never before experienced the feeling of being "full." It was astonishing! I was able to maintain my low-cal/low-fat diet--with hours of aerobic exercise--through a 50lb weight loss in about six months. I DID discontinue the drug after about three months, because I didn't like taking a drug that powerful. That was a lucky decision.

Thanks to a strong emotional resistance to becoming, or remaining, obese, I've always made intervention. LC/Atkins is the best I've found.

Last edited by bkloots : Thu, Mar-05-15 at 08:10.
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