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  #31   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 08:11
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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I have a question for those of you who actually take BG readings as a habit.

How long after you eat does it take for you to see your highest post-meal BG spikes?

It seems most recommendations are to simply focus on measuring BG's 2 hours after eating. But my understanding is that one's highest BG spikes actually occur about 45-60 minutes after eating?

If that's true, then it seems to me that one might want to know what their HIGHEST readings are after eating as well as their (probably lower) 2 hour readings?
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  #32   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 08:36
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachjeff
I have a question for those of you who actually take BG readings as a habit.

How long after you eat does it take for you to see your highest post-meal BG spikes?

It seems most recommendations are to simply focus on measuring BG's 2 hours after eating. But my understanding is that one's highest BG spikes actually occur about 45-60 minutes after eating?

If that's true, then it seems to me that one might want to know what their HIGHEST readings are after eating as well as their (probably lower) 2 hour readings?


I think you are on the right track Jeff. I test for baseline (pre meal), the peak, and the return to baseline (or close to it). The peak for me is somewhere in the 30 min-60 min range. When the peak occurs may have to do with fat content? Maybe some other factor? For a week I tested both 30 min and 60 min and am satisfied that one or the other is probably enough for me. I am seldom back to baseline by 2 hrs these days. If it is unexpectedly high at 2 hours, i might test again at 3 hours. Then i test before the next meal. I count my post prandial numbers from when i BEGAN eating per Jenny Ruhl.
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  #33   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 09:43
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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I eat so fast that there is little difference between when I start eating vs. when done. ( < :

Liz53 your experience then seems to mirror the science, which using continual glucose monitoring via some kind of abdominal implant, found that most people's BG's are highest at the 45-minute mark.

Not sure if those studies (2 I'm aware of) were done on "normal" people or metabolic train-wrecks, but I suspect that 45 minute mark is about right for most, in terms of finding out one's PEAK BG levels after a meal. At least in general.

And that's a number I'm keen to find out about. I want to know what's the HIGHEST level I'm seeing after a meal.

Even though I swore off Ezekiel bread for 2015, I did do a sort of modified glucose tolerance test on myself this morning. I ate a low sugar peanut butter sandwich on two slices of Ezekiel bread. BG was 129 at 45-minute mark.

Considering my morning fasted BG was 99, that's exactly a 30-point rise from morning baseline in 45 minutes.

Will test again at 2 hour mark. (Addendum: Was 85 at 2 hour mark)

Will be interesting to see what it is 45-minutes & 2 hours minutes after VLC meals, over the long-term.

Last edited by coachjeff : Fri, Jan-02-15 at 11:26.
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  #34   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 10:37
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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I think there is a cumulative effect if someone is eating carbs at all three meals v eating a one time carb load.
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  #35   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 11:03
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Say NO to Diabetes!
Posts: 8,671
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/228/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 92%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
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A while back I found this interesting graph from a study where they tested BG & insulin levels of participants all day long. It does seem to show a cumulative effect throughout the day. The main point of this study was to see the effects of eating a high sugar vs. high starch diet (tested at lunchtime in this example).



I found this image at the following site...

Link to Wikipedia page - Topic Insulin

The data is from an older study, so I'm sure it has been referenced here before. I don't really understand it all, but I did find it interesting. Here is a link to the study...

Link to a full text copy of this study

What I learned from all this is that when I eat in a way that makes my BG respond like the solid red line, I am right with the world. If how I eat makes my BG rise and crash (like the dotted red line) - my metabolism gets out of whack, I crave food, eat too much and gain weight.

Of note: Clearly, these participants have a much tamer response to carbs than I do. My low carb meals often result in a peak well above 125 mg/dl and for me, that is still OK. When I get spikes above 200 and BG below 70 - that is when I seem to get the craving thing going on.

Last edited by khrussva : Fri, Jan-02-15 at 15:13.
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  #36   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 11:11
jem51 jem51 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,731
 
Plan: Mine, all mine
Stats: 160/120/120 Female 5'6"
BF:still got some
Progress: 100%
Location: Oregon
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I found the Relion to be pretty accurate and compared #'s with the Freestyle.
When you have lab tests, take your meter and get a drop of blood. It probably won't be exact because testing a larger quantity will be more accurate but it should be close.

Here's what I found to be the biggest problem with meters; Even though they say that it only takes a tiny amt of blood, the results are more accurate with a larger amt.
When I get some oddball #, I retest and make sure there is a good size quantity of blood.

Jeff the symptoms you mentioned in your previous post are of full blown diabetes so good for you for getting right on it.
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  #37   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 11:30
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
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Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I think there is a cumulative effect if someone is eating carbs at all three meals v eating a one time carb load.


This can be particularly the case if one's pancreas does not produce adequate insulin, or of course if one is insulin resistant. Carbs from prior meals not really clearing fully from bloodstream, adding to the next meals BG effect in a cumulative manner over course of day.

My sugars however are far worse in morning, then actually pretty decent 2 hours after dinner.
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  #38   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 11:56
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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I remember reading in my Atkins book and with some time I'll try to locate it but I remember reading that we should not go to bed with low blood sugar and it advised eating something before bed to prevent big drops throughout the night..
I think that it keeps the blood sugar lower on average when I keep my BS on a level playing field, all the time.
I believe it's the big spikes in and big crashes in the BS that causes the problems for the Pancreas.
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  #39   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 12:52
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
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Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I remember reading in my Atkins book and with some time I'll try to locate it but I remember reading that we should not go to bed with low blood sugar and it advised eating something before bed to prevent big drops throughout the night..
I think that it keeps the blood sugar lower on average when I keep my BS on a level playing field, all the time.
I believe it's the big spikes in and big crashes in the BS that causes the problems for the Pancreas.


I think there's a lot of truth to that notion. I used to, and still get, "hypoglycemia" attacks if I eat a high carb meal. Especially if it's Italian bread at an Italian restaurant, or white rice at Asian one.

But if I actually measure my BG when having such an attack it's NEVER been in a truly hypo range of less than 70. I'll be having such an attack with sugars in 80's or 90's even.

Reason being, that such meals quickly raise me to 190's, so when my over-active pancreas drops it back to a semi-normal level (Thank God my panaceas still at least pumps out insulin.), I get hypo symptoms from the relative drop, rather than due to actually being in a clinically hypo-state.

The rapid drop is perceived as a dangerous drop, so body kicks in counter-regulatory adrenaline, etc to bring sugar back up. The excess stress hormones then make me a shaky, jittery, irritable train-wreck. Especially if I'm also under the influence of caffeine.

I believe this is commonly called false-hypoglycemia.

But it's very real in terms of feeling very hypo-like, even though you're technically not.
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  #40   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 14:50
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Turtle2003 Turtle2003 is offline
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Posts: 1,449
 
Plan: Atkins, Newcastle
Stats: 260/221.8/165 Female 5'3"
BF:Highest weight 260
Progress: 40%
Location: Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachjeff
I think there's a lot of truth to that notion. I used to, and still get, "hypoglycemia" attacks if I eat a high carb meal. Especially if it's Italian bread at an Italian restaurant, or white rice at Asian one.

But if I actually measure my BG when having such an attack it's NEVER been in a truly hypo range of less than 70. I'll be having such an attack with sugars in 80's or 90's even.

Reason being, that such meals quickly raise me to 190's, so when my over-active pancreas drops it back to a semi-normal level (Thank God my panaceas still at least pumps out insulin.), I get hypo symptoms from the relative drop, rather than due to actually being in a clinically hypo-state.

The rapid drop is perceived as a dangerous drop, so body kicks in counter-regulatory adrenaline, etc to bring sugar back up. The excess stress hormones then make me a shaky, jittery, irritable train-wreck. Especially if I'm also under the influence of caffeine.

I believe this is commonly called false-hypoglycemia.

But it's very real in terms of feeling very hypo-like, even though you're technically not.


Now that is very interesting. I'd never heard of 'false-hypoglycemia' before, but it sounds like a reaction I used to get all the time at about 11 am or so many mornings. I don't get it nearly as often these days, perhaps because of eating fairly low carb all the time? But even back when this often happened I almost always had only cream/coffee for breakfast, so it wasn't due to a crash after a high carb breakfast or anything like that. I would just feel slightly shaky and 'off' just before lunchtime.

When I started testing my BG a couple of years ago I was eager to see if those 11:00 blues I got were associated with low BG. I was disappointed to find that my BG wasn't very low at all, so the cause remained a mystery. You've got me wondering if it might be this false-hypo thing you've described.
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  #41   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 16:44
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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Might be more accurate to call it "true over-secretion of stress hormones".
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  #42   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 17:21
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51
I found the Relion to be pretty accurate and compared #'s with the Freestyle.


Are you using the Prime or Confirm? I have the Prime & am realizing it's wildly inaccurate. I've been comparing it from time to time with the much more costly Accu-Chek Aviva and the ReliOn is sometimes very close to the same, most of the time it's 10-20 over, today it was 40 over!

I wish I could afford to buy the Accu-Check strips. Tho if I only check once a day, I could afford it. It's all this before & after checking that runs the cost up.

Another cheap brand (can't think of the name at the moment) was mentioned as being fairly accurate. I might try that one.
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  #43   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 20:05
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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Just tested my wife's higher-priced One-Touch Ultra Mini BG-Meter against my cheaper True Result Meter.

I took two BG readings with each meter, seconds apart to get an average.

The One Touch is giving me readings about 6 points higher than my cheaper True Result Meter, on average.

Honestly I feel like the cheaper one is more accurate.

I say that because I took the readings about 6.5 hours after lunch on a VERY empty stomach. I didn't eat ANY carbs at lunch either.

- The cheaper meter gave me an average pre-dinner reading of 75.5
- The more expensive meter gave me an average reading of 81.5

Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but the 75.5 seems more likely, since I really was running on very empty.

I'll do more testing between the two meters to see if that 6 point difference remains between the two meters. If it does, I guess I may have to try a 3rd meter to see what it says. I'd like to know I'm getting accurate readings.

I also plan to buy an HBa1c meter as well to test that out at home.
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  #44   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 21:36
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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The "Glucose Wiz" app I downloaded to my Ipad was not bad, but had certain limitations in terms of allowing me to track various time-frames.

I have switched to a free online BG tracker I like much better. I do NOT have ANY association with this site btw.

http://www.diabetease.com

It allows you to track all kinds of different time frames, and gives you your overall average BG readings as well.

And the really cool thing is that it does NOT restrict you to merely obtaining the overall average of ALL your readings, but it can also give you your average of just certain specific time-frames such as your average fasting reading for the month, after breakfast, etc.

Also will tell you your highest and lowest readings of any given time-frame, in addition to the averages.

Really good! And free.
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  #45   ^
Old Fri, Jan-02-15, 21:45
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
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After a TON of reading on how to properly monitor my BG, I have settled on the following for Jan.

- Morning Fasting
- Right before meals
- 1 Hour after meals
- 2 hours after meals
- Bedtime

To save $$$ on test-strips (even though mine are just 18-cents per strip), and assuming I get my BG's under control with a VLC diet, like I think I can, I will then monitor according to the following.


- Morning Fasting
- 1 Hour after lunch & dinner (I don't snack between meals)

I may still test occasionally before meals and at bedtime, but my fasting and 1-hour PP are what I'm most interested in tracking. 1 hour readings are supposed to be one's highest, so that'll let me know how high my BGs go after a meal a lot better than the 2-hour PP most seem to recommend.

Of course BG levels are just one way to track. I also intend to measure my Hba1c with a home meter once a month or so. Was surprised to see they actually sell home versions of those online.

And what the heck...think I'll get me a home blood-pressure monitor as well.
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