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  #46   ^
Old Tue, May-13-14, 05:02
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,266
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Hope you feel better soon, but in a few days is asking too much. Think it depends how long you have been on statins and how depleted COQ10, it does take some time to build back up.

If you have been listening to the free on-line diabetes summit, posted on the diabetes board, yesterday was Heart day. Keynote speaker was Dr. Sinatra...excellent review of latest guidelines and science. But only stays up until 10 am this morning.
He still looks at Trigs/HDL as best indicator out of the typical lipid panel, talked about the cases when he would use statins (man with diagnosed CVD, a few women with genetic issues, etc) Best info was I did not know he had an Informational Website, in addition to his commercial site. Check this out, maybe share with your doctor.

http://www.heartmdinstitute.com
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  #47   ^
Old Tue, May-13-14, 07:52
bworthey's Avatar
bworthey bworthey is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 547
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 352/332/240 Male 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Nettleton, MS
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Yeah, I realize a few days is unrealistic. I've been on the coq-10 since march I believe, but I also upped the statin at the same time too. So I was probably fighting a losing battle there since I upped the statin and then dropped the other back down.
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  #48   ^
Old Wed, May-14-14, 07:32
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 946
 
Plan: Low-Glycemic (low carb)
Stats: 230/185/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Florida
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I'm a little late to the party, and I admit, I didn't read all 4 pages of posts - I don't have that much patience (sorry) but I do have some experience with joint pain which I will share with you.

First of all, I do believe in CoQ10 and have been taking it for decades to help with inherited periodontal problems. But it did nothing for my joints.

At one time my Bursitis was so bad that I had to put a "blue ice" pack behind my right hip to drive the car. The pain from pressing the gas pedal down was too intense to bear. I couldn't walk for more than 2 blocks without sitting and resting for a while to relieve the weight.

I also had arthritis in a previously injured little finger that hurt so badly that I would skip playing notes on the saxophone that involved that finger whenever I could.

I was putting DMSO on it, taking glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, and SAMe with only moderate results. The SAMe worked the best, but it was expensive and I still needed the ice pack and I still avoided those G# notes whenever I could.

I felt like I was going to be a candidate for a hip replacement, something I wanted to avoid at all costs. They only last about 10 years, and then have to be replaced again, and I figured when I was older, it could be life threatening to get a major operation.

I get my vitamins at Life Extension Foundation in Fort Lauderdale FL and they have doctors on call who give general advice. I e-mailed, expecting to get another supplement to take (that's what LEF does) but instead I got an arthritis/bursitis diet to follow before taking anything else.

I followed the diet and it reduced the pain from extreme to only an irritation. I no longer felt I was going to need a hip job. I could live with the 90% improvement, didn't need the ice pack, and played G# notes with only some discomfort.

I'll paste the diet at the bottom of this post.

Then I discovered PEMFT (Pulsed ElectroMagnetic Field Therapy).

The way I understand it is they use this in all manned space probes and in the International Space Station -- they use a low frequency, north polarity, square wave pulse to keep the bones and joints of the spacemen and spacewomen healthy.

You replace the calcium in your bones constantly. Most of the calcium is flushed out via your blood and eventually urine. But some of it gets lodged in your joints, which wears away the cartilage.

Calcium is paramagnetic; I responds to a magnetic field but doesn't stay magnetized with the field is removed like iron does.

So again, the way I comprehend it is: The low frequency square wave pulses loosen the calcium in the joints by essentially shaking them (fast frequencies and waveforms more gradual than a square wave aren't effective). Then if you drink a lot of water, you can flush that loosened calcium out of your body.

I bought a home-use PEMFT device and it took the rest of the discomfort out of my joints. I am now 100% pain free, I play those G# notes, and can drive cross country without the ice pack. It's like I was never injured.

The PEMFT device was expensive, but I no longer take all those supplements and it paid for itself in a few months.

Try the diet first, for most people it should take care of the pain. If the joint problem is extreme, PM me and I'll give you the name of the device I bought.

The Arthritis/Bursitis Diet:

For both arthritis and bursitis, treatment is similar:

Try the dietary approach first, and if that doesn't work, take stronger action.

Foods that may contribute to chronic inflammation are foods with a high glycemic index (foods that convert to sugar quickly), such as fruit juices, sugars, simple starches, or rice cakes, foods heavy in polyunsaturated or saturated fats, and foods high in arachidonic acid. Some specific foods to avoid are:

* Fatty cuts of red meat (high in saturated fats)
* Organ meats: liver, kidney, and so forth (very high in arachidonic acid)
* Egg yolks (high in arachidonic acid) [my addition: fowl is even higher in AA than egg yolks]
* Pasta (high glycemic index)
* Juices (high glycemic index)
* Rice, especially rice cakes (high glycemic index)
* White bread (substitute whole grain breads such as rye or whole wheat)
* Nightshade Plants bother many people (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, paprika)

Glycemic index charts can be found on the Internet.

Better choices are foods with a low glycemic index and foods that are heavy in monounsaturated fats. Some specific good foods are:

* Salmon and other fish
* Oatmeal
* Fresh fruits and vegetables
* Olives and olive oil
* Peanuts and other nuts
* Whey proteins


We were doing the diet and the PEMFT gizmo with great results, then my wife started to eat a lot of chicken and her hands started swelling up again. We did some googling and found that Chicken, Duck, and other fowl meat has more AA than egg yolks. She cut out the chicken, the swelling went down, and the pain went away again.

IMHO if you can solve the problem with diet, it's the way to go. The proverbial ounce of prevention.

I'd rather give up egg yolks (I was a big egg eater) than have hip replacement surgery. I still eat the whites, and put a little cheese in them to add some flavor.

Bob
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  #49   ^
Old Wed, May-14-14, 08:05
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,261
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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There's always the consideration that:

1) It is a side-effect of the statins and it will take a while to go away.
2) It is a side-effect of another of your drugs.
3) It is unrelated to your drugs.
4) The drug(s) caused something to happen and it is more permanent.

I'm trying out curcumin for my back issues. So far it isn't working.
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  #50   ^
Old Wed, May-14-14, 11:57
bworthey's Avatar
bworthey bworthey is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 547
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 352/332/240 Male 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Nettleton, MS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Try the dietary approach first, and if that doesn't work, take stronger action.


Bob


Based what I'm eating - I'm eating close to that diet because I'm eating low carb, of course with the exceptions of the red meat and eggs. Not sure I could give those up yet! Ha!

It's all so confusing because it seems like it would be linked to the statins and coQ-10, ut then again who knows. Thanks for the info. Maybe it's still just an issue of time!
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  #51   ^
Old Wed, May-14-14, 12:12
bworthey's Avatar
bworthey bworthey is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 547
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 352/332/240 Male 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Nettleton, MS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
There's always the consideration that:

1) It is a side-effect of the statins and it will take a while to go away.
2) It is a side-effect of another of your drugs.
3) It is unrelated to your drugs.
4) The drug(s) caused something to happen and it is more permanent.

I'm trying out curcumin for my back issues. So far it isn't working.


I can agree with all of this. It just appeared to be something related to the drugs because 1)it started happening after I started taking them, and 2)it is mentioned as a potential side effect.

However, the joint pain did start after I lost about 60 pounds in a very short period of time and I've wondered if that simply couldhave been a cause. Could it have been my body adjusting to those changes? Maybe that's just my crazy thinking, I dunno.

It could be completely unrelated. I know I've never had joint pain like this before. Sure I've had aches and pains before, but I was also carrying around almost 400 pounds, I expected my knees and hips to hurt. I've noticed my hip kills my when I lay on my side in the bed watching TV - never done that before. When I get up from sitting for a while, it's like my joints are tight, don't want to move. Maybe I just need to exercise and that will help - no idea. Seems counterproductive, but what do I know! Ha!

Of course the flip side is maybe I'm just getting old! Ha!
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  #52   ^
Old Thu, May-15-14, 02:18
jaywood jaywood is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 513
 
Plan: the FightDoctors plan
Stats: 215/171/165 Male 177 cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: Scotland
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Lets all get together and muddy the water a bit. That way we can roll out giving even more people statins!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27420100
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  #53   ^
Old Thu, May-15-14, 03:29
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,266
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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jay wood, Thanks for that news, hope the BMJ does more investigation. Like that the BBC is asking for stories. I will relink on the thread about the Aussie documentary on statins also having been pulled.
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  #54   ^
Old Thu, May-15-14, 08:25
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 946
 
Plan: Low-Glycemic (low carb)
Stats: 230/185/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bworthey
Based what I'm eating - I'm eating close to that diet because I'm eating low carb, of course with the exceptions of the red meat and eggs. Not sure I could give those up yet! Ha!

Give up the egg yolks for three weeks. Make sure the meat is lean, and don't eat any fowl. You can give up anything for 3 weeks.

Then if it works, you can decide whether you want to live in pain or eat egg yolks.

When my pain was the worst, I was working on a cruise ship. This particular line didn't treat the entertainers well, and fed us what amounted to leftover food. Not knowing about egg yolks at the time, I would load up at breakfast with a huge plate of scrambled eggs (they were at least fresh) and made it my main meal of the day. I didn't know at the time it was the problem, but my hip and hands were so sore I could hardly walk or play the instruments. I bought emu oil, swallowed supplements to the max dosage, used heating pads and ice packs, and just about anything else I could find.

When I got off the ship I started investigating, and that's when I found out about the diet. I could tell the difference in a couple of weeks, and by the end of the first month, I was 90% pain free.

I love eggs and fried chicken. But I'd rather walk and play the saxophone than eat eggs and poultry.

And without all that inflammation, I'm sure I'll live a longer, healthier life (barring a tragic accident). To me eggs aren't "To die for"

How about you?

Bob
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  #55   ^
Old Fri, May-16-14, 07:35
bworthey's Avatar
bworthey bworthey is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 547
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 352/332/240 Male 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 18%
Location: Nettleton, MS
Default

I have to laugh, it's the only thing keeping my sanity right now - this WOL - just keeps getting better. I keep holding out that the joint pain is simply from the statins or just that I'm old. The only things I'm eating from this list is eggs, red meat, and chicken (not fried). Everything else is cut out and has been cut out for about 6 months. I didn't have this bad of joint pain before changing my woe and going on the statins. So, I guess I keep making the case for statins. But who knows. Yeah, 3 weeks isn't that bad but I guess I already feel like I've given up things and instead of moving forward and feeling better I don't and now I have to give up other things - just adds to the frustration.
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  #56   ^
Old Fri, May-16-14, 08:26
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 946
 
Plan: Low-Glycemic (low carb)
Stats: 230/185/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Florida
Default

Red meat is OK, but lean cuts. Grass fed beef is much, much better because it has a higher omega 3 to omega 6 ratio. It will also help you lose weight because when the steers are put on the feed lot and stuffed with grain, their meat loses the Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) which helps you lose.

Chicken and egg yolks are very inflammatory.

But we all make our choices and have a right to do so.

I'd give up the chicken and egg yolks for 3 weeks just to see if it was the problem, and if it isn't, you won't have to feel guilty eating them again. If it is the problem, you just have to assess your priorities.

But it's entirely up to you. It's your life and your joints.

Bob
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