Interesting blog post today that may help everyone define the essential elements of a Paleo Diet and Optional tweaks to the main principles:

http://blog.modernpaleo.com/2012/11...l-in-paleo.html

Good post! I think that sort of feeling helps quash the "it's a diet" versus "it's a lifestyle" dichotomy many people feel.

I think it's a great post because we hear people say, "I can't do Paleo because (fill in the blank.)" Most commonly, it has to do with the higher price of grass-finished meats. So, they end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater, which is too bad.

Great post. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes: Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I think it is a good reminder that health may not always be at the top of one's list of priorities - our lives are a balance of many forces. We do the best we can at the time and we keep trying.

Paleo doesnt include dairy.

Hi Warren, this writer makes three valid points about even her most basic Paleo principles http://www.modernpaleo.com/principles.html, especially that health should be viewed in an individual context. Quality high-fat dairy can be used, especially by those trying to gain muscle. I have read all the reasons Dr Cordain and many others think Paleo should never include any dairy whatsoever, but then my ultimate decision about its use is based on my unique health issues.

To my great surprise, to buy 1/2 side of grass-fed beef was just $2.89 a lb. from our local butcher..yes, it was a lot of meat overall, but it's all grass-fed, local beef and that price rocks. Far better than just buying grass-fed ground beef alone which was all we were comfortable buying, on occasion, given the prices locally.

Yes, the way I see it, without dairy, I would find the whole woe difficult - better for me to compromise and do primal with dairy than fail at strict paleo and go back to eating a standard diet instead.

Lee

In my case, I went without dairy for YEARS after it was blamed for a bad case of gastroenteritis. But doing so did not change my weight, my rosacea, or my sleep pattern.

When I started low carb, I felt so dramatically different that dropping soy led to testing dairy; adding high fat/low carb dairy back in did not change my reactions. In contrast, going strict gluten-free had dramatic results: I dropped weight around my waist, my skin got happier, etc.

So having tested it extensively, I'm keeping my dairy. I'm not worried about being Strict Paleo. Besides, Cordain is still afraid of saturated fats... I'm going to listen to him about dairy when he's got the science so wrong on fats? Lots of opinion makers think I gotta have "safe starches" but I have also tested that theory and it doesn't pan out for me.

On the science side, I believe the evidence for us being nomadic pastoralists (herding and domesticating animals) even before we were static agriculturalists is pretty strong. Which might be why dairy has a inconsistent history of people having trouble with it, while wheat and other grains have a universal, easily demonstrated, bad effect.

Muscle can be built without dairy. If somebody wants to use dairy, fine, I don't mind what people eat and drink. That is their business but just because people want to do paleo and dairy does not make dairy, paleo. It's something else. Why must people insist on changing what paleo is about?

I think you will have a hard time trying to find anyone that you agree with entirely so you can't really dismiss everything anyone says just over one issue.

I found thishttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...hp?t=2056250463
Anyone on a paleo diet is unlikely to be eating much of those foods I have put in bold.

What is Paleo about? ...."there was no one Paleolithic diet, it varied considerably by time and place" Paul Jaminet posted an interesting introduction, and will have more this week, about the new edition of their book. Linked is a Book Exerpt that addresses this exact question.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/

The point of this thread.

I don't say I "do Paleo," here, because I'm aware that I do not. However, among the uninitiated, I do use the term because it's something people understand; and are less hostile to, than low carb.

I found this on Dr. Eades blog:



Of course it doesn't mean we throw out everything Cordain has to say; but it does mean he's got a huge blind spot. Naturally occurring animal fats have a high proportion of saturated fat, and that is what people ate for millennia; to say this kind of fat is only dangerous combined with pastoral and agricultural products is an intriguing hypothesis with little data to support it.

Since I'm Primal, I can quote Mark Sisson on the subject:



I'm probably in a unique position with having not eaten it for years, experienced low carb without it, then added it... all without experiencing any noticeable effect, either way.

I'm certainly not encouraging anyone to keep or eliminate dairy based on what anyone else says, because it seems to be so highly individual. And the science isn't that much help, because it seems to constantly study different items in isolation, and not differentiate between grainfed products full of antibiotics, and pastured sources who haven't been heavily medicated. Though we know that has a big difference to the nutritional impact of the subsequent food.

With any food category, I encourage people to try eliminating it for a good while, and see what happens when they add it back in. On this board there are people who are all over the map with their reactions to starch, fruit, artificial sweeteners, eggs, dairy, and even different kinds of meat. In my own experience I used to get along fine with artificial sweeteners, but then I went gluten free, healed my gut, and now it does have a bad effect on me.

I find myself reading this thread because, thru the other LC areas, I see the term paleo and wondered if it fit my understnading of the early food options for mankind.

The word "dairy" as an atkins follewer is not helpful. I need low carb foods. Some dairy is high carb, others low carb and products in between. During hunter/gatherer life styles dairy would not likely. THere is a nomadic tribe in ____, that milks their horses. SO I guess man has devised a way to obtain many food sources and not fit the definition perfectly.

I do not drink milk any more; though I will use cream; I eat cheeses, hard cheeses; and need to be careful of the yogurts and the soft cheeses. For my children, I rarely buy milk, but they can eat all the cheese and yogurt they want, in hopes that they will continue this as adults.

We raise our own lamb. ANd I would love to buy grass fed beef. For now I buy a lot of meats in general, including sausages which is an old form of meat preservation.

I think, or IMO, that every body is unique and many factors come into play in food selection, so what we buy and eat can vary from household to household. We get caught up in the minutia which becomes divisive rather than focusing on the basics that make our lives better.

THere are weeks I eat only meat and a small salad, maybe that makes me paleo for those weeks. THen life butts in and I eat a greek yogurt.

I think we get too caught up with RULES. I do what works for me and my family; it's not perfect but I know it is a whole lot better than any other family I know.

I'm glad to be able to come to this website and know I am not alone in trying to show my family that meat IS good for us, and eating a diet with a high percent of grains and other high starch vegies/legumes will create health issues long term.

Thanks for listening; and I will continue to try to find a book on Paleo to read the details. I think I would love it.

Paleo still doesn't include dairy.