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  #31   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-12, 23:18
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mviesprite
The premise is that when you eat a protein/fat meal, and then you have carbs - it spikes your insulin and thereby everything gets stored as fat.

Yup, I can see that making some sense. I was just thinking about this today, in fact. The seed/protein shake is basically my fat/pro. I drink it in the morning and then don't consume any carbs until a minimum of 4 hours later. I hadn't really planned it that way, but that's what I've been doing. Now I'm wondering if I'm allowing enough time between my evening meal (generally a little more carby) and my nighttime fat/pro seed drink. Today I had plenty of time, but I think it's generally only an hour or two. I had this rule from the last time I dieted where I always make sure not to eat within two hours of going to sleep, so I try not to save food for really late in the evening/night. Does anyone have any experience with this? Is this a good rule to stick to, or do you think it's irrelevant if it's essentially carbless and all fat and protein?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mviesprite
It is suggested that the best combo is a carbos breakfast and then pro/fats the rest of the day, and I do find that works well.

Hmmm... so far I have been avoiding carbs for breakfast, with the thinking being that hopefully I'm running on ketones when I wake up in the morning, and hopefully I can prolong that into the afternoon before I eat some carbs. Why does she suggest carbs in the morning?

My other concern is that I do like to have carbs pre- and post-workout, which is always later in the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mviesprite
I think what may help you is how you are combining your carbs/proteins. For what it's worth.

I'm all ears. Give me more details if you think it's something I can apply to how I'm eating. Thanks.
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 05:55
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowCVegan
I know some people here are pretty calorie-conscious, so I gotta warn you that this is very calorie-dense (997 calories), especially fat (84 grams). But seeds are my major dietary source of fat, so I can handle it no problem. Plus, you gotta be getting your calories primarily from either fat or protein when you're doing low carb, right? Another thing to keep in mind is that it only has 7 grams carbs (for each of the two drinks) and a glycemic load of ZERO.



Just wanted to clarify since I was one of the ones concerned with calories above that I have no problem with getting your nutrition from fat sources. In the end, fattier foods carry more vitamins and minerals and tend to be nutrient dense. It's vitamins and minerals carried with a lot of sugar that would be more problematic for me.
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  #33   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 10:20
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
Just wanted to clarify since I was one of the ones concerned with calories above that I have no problem with getting your nutrition from fat sources.

That's cool. I actually thought that was standard practice for virtually all low-carbers, but then when I started reading threads around here I noticed that some people are also pretty into limiting their overall calorie intake, so I just wanted to provide the relevant nutritional info for people of both persuasions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
In the end, fattier foods carry more vitamins and minerals and tend to be nutrient dense.

Oh, absolutely! I've never really been into low-fat eating (or dieting), but it wasn't until I did all this nutrition research recently that I realized how true it is. If you want the V&M your body needs, you have to be prioritizing nutrient-dense foods in your diet, and this often means eating a good amount of fat (although maybe you could get by on lean meats? I don't really know and don't plan to put any time into researching that). I've become convinced that this holds even more true for vegans and vegetarians. Yeah, you could get a lot more of your daily V&M from vegetables, but most people just do not have the time, patience, dedication and stomach capacity to make that work for very long. And the thing with vegetables is that a lot of them are actually really nutrient dense per carb. The problem is that you have to eat such a ridiculous volume of them to capitalize on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
It's vitamins and minerals carried with a lot of sugar that would be more problematic for me.

So far I really have not come across anything that fits that description. Carb-dense foods are generally poor in V&M. There are some exceptions to the rule (potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots and some others do well in certain areas), but I'm finding it's a pretty good rule of thumb to say "if you care about getting V&M, do NOT fill up on carbs!"
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  #34   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 15:24
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowCVegan
So far I really have not come across anything that fits that description. Carb-dense foods are generally poor in V&M. There are some exceptions to the rule (potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots and some others do well in certain areas), but I'm finding it's a pretty good rule of thumb to say "if you care about getting V&M, do NOT fill up on carbs!"


I'm really thinking of fruit here. Vitamins and minerals are the justification I hear from carbophiles for eating fruit. There's virtually nothing that you get from fruit that you can't get from other sources - without the fructose.
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  #35   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 15:52
esam's Avatar
esam esam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 374
 
Plan: atkins 72
Stats: 308/282/165 Female 5'9"
BF:...whatever!
Progress: 18%
Location: Arizona
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I liked how you broke out your core diet and how you have figured out most of your required v&m's (most people don't put that much effort into what they put into their bodies)
and some of us are looking for the quick fix to dump the weight, so we just do what worked with others. Research is invaluable.

well thought out.

and I respect your decision to stay vegan. I loved being vegan, but didn't make the healthiest go of it. Have read all the same books and seen the same videos as Carina plus some....

Good Luck on your journey!! Hope you find the support you are looking for!! (and the answers to those last two nutrients)
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  #36   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 16:39
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
There's virtually nothing that you get from fruit that you can't get from other sources - without the fructose.

So true. Greens have A, C and K in abundance (as well as some B vitamins and minerals) and nutritional yeast has basically all the other vitamins covered, so fruit isn't really "necessary" if you play your carbs right. But I may continue to eat bananas before workouts for the quick energy and for the potassium. Still trying to figure out if I can handle the carbos from it and still lose weight, though. I do intend to (hopefully) start eating more fruit after I increase my carbos again. I had a small banana today before working out and it tasted really sweet!
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  #37   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 18:57
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esam
I liked how you broke out your core diet and how you have figured out most of your required v&m's (most people don't put that much effort into what they put into their bodies)
and some of us are looking for the quick fix to dump the weight, so we just do what worked with others. Research is invaluable.

Thank you. Like I mentioned above, the last time I lost weight, I was happier with how I looked, but I didn't really feel all that great. After doing all this research I realized that I was taking a diet that was already deficient in V&M and then eating EVEN LESS of it! No wonder I didn't feel noticeably better. So now I'm not going to make that mistake again. I need to get healthy AND shed some excess poundage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esam
and I respect your decision to stay vegan. I loved being vegan, but didn't make the healthiest go of it.)

Well, I for one am not an absolutist about these things, even though I personally don't consume animal products. I think there can be great benefit to simply reducing animal product in your diet. Now that I know more about how to do that in a healthy way, I will be better able to tell others how to do it if that's what they want to do. I have seen some people become vegetarian and vegan since me (which always makes you feel at least somewhat responsible for it, for better or worse) and they're not necessarily better off for it in a nutritional sense. Hopefully I can reach out to them and suggest some changes after I get more of this figure out for myself. Seeds, baby!

Quote:
Originally Posted by esam
(and the answers to those last two nutrients)

I'm actually researching that as we speak.

The problem with potassium is that some of the best vegan sources are from foods that are pretty carby (beans, potatoes, sweet potatoes, bananas, acorn squash) or it's fairly low-carb, but would require eating it in a volume that just may not be realistic day in and day out (cauliflower, broccoli, zucchini, white mushrooms). Avocado is rich in potassium, but I've yet to think of an appetizing way to eat it that doesn't involve carbs. Another promising addition is tomato paste. I'm going to experiment with zucchini (which I love) and see if I can fry out a lot of the water, thereby making it easier to eat greater volumes (I think potassium holds up well to frying, but I'm having trouble confirming this - anyone know?). And for what it's worth, all of this applies to vegetarians, too (eggs and cheese contain only very small amounts of potassium).

I also just read a journal article about how important proper sodium and potassium intake is for athletes on a ketogenic diet. So I think I might end up supplementing, at least for the time being. I'm still going to strive for 100% through diet, but I need to make take all practical steps to avoid impairment of my workouts, because working out is a huge part of my plan for overall wellness.

As for the other nutrient I need more of, pantothenic acid, I'm still having trouble figuring that one out. I'm running into the same problems as with potassium. Foods that offer a decent amount of PA are either carby (lentils, split peas, oats, sweet potato) or bulky (cauliflower, broccoli, white mushrooms). PA is also apparently readily destroyed by heat, and almost every way I can imagine eating these foods is by cooking them first. Sunflower seeds are a good source, but I'm already eating 48 grams of those a day, so I really don't think I want to increase that. Again, avocados are a good source, but same problem as before. One other thing I might try is crude rice bran, if I can find it and it's not too expensive. So I still have a ways to go to figure this one out. Right now I'm getting 59% from food (and 100% from a multivitamin, but I don't like to rely on supplements, if possible).

But I still have to do more research on pantothenic acid. I know there are very good reasons to maintain adequate potassium intake, but it seems that pantothenic acid deficiency is very rare, and therefore understudied. This has me wondering how the RDA of 10 mg was set, and the quality of the science that backs that up. It could be possible that the RDA was set based on population averages, and since the vast majority of people eat meat (which has plenty of PA), the average amount in people's blood may be way more than is actually needed for optimal health. I'm going to have to look into this some more.

But all this research had made me realize two things. I need to find a low-carb way to start eating avocados and once I start eating more carbs again, sweet potato is a great choice for both PA and potassium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esam
Good Luck on your journey!! Hope you find the support you are looking for!!

Thank you! I've been getting good feedback and ideas from plenty of people here already.
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  #38   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 19:13
pinkclouds's Avatar
pinkclouds pinkclouds is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,574
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 260/229/160 Female 65"
BF:Size 22/18/8
Progress: 31%
Location: Colorado
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Hi there! Welcome to the board! I have only read your orginal post so I apologize if you've mentioned this already but I was wondering where you get your brazil nuts? I can't find them anywhere unless they are in those cans of mixed nuts.

I admire what you are trying to do, eat healthier by eliminating unhealthy carbs while still sticking to your morals/beliefs. It takes a lot of discipline! Good luck
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  #39   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 20:26
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkclouds
I was wondering where you get your brazil nuts? I can't find them anywhere unless they are in those cans of mixed nuts.

I get them in the bulk bins at a co-op, but I'm pretty sure Whole Foods also carries them if you have one of those near you. I think some grocery stores may also carry them in the baking aisle, same place you might find chopped pecans, walnuts etc. They're usually quite expensive (mine were $9 a pound), but don't let that deter you. 1 or 2 a day is all you need for a full day's supply of selenium. A pound should last at least 60 days! Hope that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkclouds
I admire what you are trying to do, eat healthier by eliminating unhealthy carbs while still sticking to your morals/beliefs. It takes a lot of discipline! Good luck

Thank you! It's been an interesting journey so far and every day I feel more in control of my diet and nutrition. And everyone here has been so nice!
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  #40   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 05:27
Elizellen's Avatar
Elizellen Elizellen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,733
 
Plan: Atkins (DANDR)
Stats: 290/141/130 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Bournemouth (UK)
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Welcome to the board It seems as if you have really got a handle on what works for your body.

I was surprised that you wrote
Quote:
Avocado is rich in potassium, but I've yet to think of an appetizing way to eat it that doesn't involve carbs
as I have never eaten avocados with much in the way of carbs added.
I like them topped with prawns/mayo (the oldfashioned starter from the 1960's) or just sprinkled with salt and lemon juice. You could mash them and eat them like guacamole with some celery sticks to dip.
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  #41   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 07:02
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Perhaps LCV is dipping tostados in his guacamole? I'm happy to dip my fork in.
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  #42   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 07:24
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizellen
Welcome to the board It seems as if you have really got a handle on what works for your body.

Thank you! Yup, I'm trying to get that figured out in the context of low-carbing. So far, so good. 2 pounds lost the first week, 2.3 the second, things are looking good for the third week so far! And I'm getting very close to figuring out all my V&M in a way that I think I can actually stick with.

BTW, nice stats! That is some impressive loss! Way to go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizellen
I was surprised that you wrote as I have never eaten avocados with much in the way of carbs added.
I like them... just sprinkled with salt and lemon juice. You could mash them and eat them like guacamole with some celery sticks to dip.

I'll have to try one of those methods. I've been avoiding celery so far because I think it would be too filling, and it's not particularly nutritious (especially in a quantity that wouldn't be very filling), but if it will help me do avocados low-carb, then it's definitely worth a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
Perhaps LCV is dipping tostados in his guacamole? I'm happy to dip my fork in.

Yup, you got me. I've eaten a decent amount of avocado in the last 3-4 years, but it's almost always been in the form of guac and always accompanied with carbs like tortilla chips, rice, tortillas or tostadas. I was having trouble thinking of a way without all that that sounded appealing. Call it a lack of imagination, I guess.

I bought two avocados last night, so once they're ripe, I'm going to give 'em a whirl, low-carb style!
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  #43   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 08:10
esam's Avatar
esam esam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 374
 
Plan: atkins 72
Stats: 308/282/165 Female 5'9"
BF:...whatever!
Progress: 18%
Location: Arizona
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oooooh!! make guac!!!

( I could eat an avocado right out of the peel with a spoon and salt)
you could make a nut burger with all your seeds and spread guac on it!!!
I'm a huge fan of veggie burgers!!!!!!!


( I was a regualr member on Dr. McDougall's site for quite awhile, it's zero fat vegan). not much wiggle room for LC)
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  #44   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 12:31
Elizellen's Avatar
Elizellen Elizellen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,733
 
Plan: Atkins (DANDR)
Stats: 290/141/130 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Bournemouth (UK)
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Another good dipping tool is flax crackers, which are easy to make.

Just mix equal volumes of ground flax (linseed outside USA/Canada) and water, let sit to thicken up then spread spoonfuls onto parchment paper or a silicone baking sheet and either microwave or oven bake till crisp.

You could also use the muffin in a minute recipe but spread out the batter thinly instead of putting it in muffin tins.

I make a very simple microwaveable slice of bread using 2 tablespoons of ground flax, 1/2 teaspoon of baking powder. 1 tablespoon melted coconut oil (or butter or any other oil/fat) and one egg which I spread out into about a 6"/7" diameter circle.
I bet if it was spread out thinner it would end up crisper and be like doritos/corn chips once sliced
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  #45   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 17:15
esam's Avatar
esam esam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 374
 
Plan: atkins 72
Stats: 308/282/165 Female 5'9"
BF:...whatever!
Progress: 18%
Location: Arizona
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sorry Elizellen, egg isn't vegan
egg-replacer is an option, but I think it's a starch.......
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