Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Cholesterol, Heart Disease
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 06:05
kvcooks's Avatar
kvcooks kvcooks is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,831
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/138/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Chicago
Default Kids on Cholesterol Drugs?

Wow- I read this yesterday and could scarcely believe my eyes- actually putting a 5 year-old on drugs to lower her cholesterol? What about changing her diet and teaching her how to eat? It all seems to be about how early can they get kids on pharmaceuticals! Absolutely Appalling!

Quote:
Every child should be tested for high cholesterol between ages 9 and 11 so steps can be taken to prevent heart disease later on, a panel of doctors urged Friday in new advice that is sure to be controversial.
Until now, major medical groups have suggested cholesterol tests only for children with a family history of early heart disease or high cholesterol and those who are obese or have diabetes or high blood pressure. But studies show that is missing many children with high cholesterol, and the number of them at risk is growing because of the obesity epidemic.
The recommendation is in new guidelines from an expert panel appointed by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute and endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatrics.
They also advise diabetes screening every two years starting as early as 9 for children who are overweight and have other risks for Type 2 diabetes, including family history. One third of U.S. children and teens are obese or overweight, fueling a boom in diabetes.
Autopsy studies show that some children already have signs of heart disease even before they have symptoms. By the fourth grade, 10 percent to 13 percent of U.S. children have high cholesterol, defined as a score of 200 or more.
Fats build up in the heart arteries in the first and second decade of life but usually don't start hardening the arteries until people are in their 20s and 30s, said one of the guideline panel members, Dr. Elaine Urbina, director of preventive cardiology at Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center.
"If we screen at age 20, it may be already too late," she said. "To me it's not controversial at all. We should have been doing this for years."

Elizabeth Duruz didn't want to take that chance. Her 10-year-old daughter, Joscelyn Benninghoff, has been on cholesterol-lowering medicines since she was 5 because high cholesterol runs in her family. They live in Cincinnati.
"We decided when she was 5 that we would get her screened early on. She tested really high" despite being active and not overweight, Duruz said. "We're doing what we need to do for her now and that gives me hope that she'll be healthy."
Doctors recommend screening between ages 9 and 11 because cholesterol dips during puberty and rises later. They also advise testing again later, between ages 17 and 21.
The guidelines say that cholesterol drugs likely would be recommended for less than 1 percent of kids tested. Most children found to have high cholesterol would be advised to control it with diet and physical activity.
And children younger than 10 should not be treated with cholesterol drugs unless they have severe cholesterol problems, the guidelines say.

"We'll also continue to encourage parents and children to make positive lifestyle choices to prevent risk factors from occurring," said Dr. Gordan Tomaselli, president of the American Heart Association, which praised the guidelines and will host a presentation on them Sunday at its annual conference in Florida.
Cholesterol tests cost around $80 and usually are covered by health insurance.
Several doctors on the guidelines panel have received consulting fees or have had other financial ties to makers of cholesterol medicines, and the new advice raises concerns about overtreating children with powerful drugs without long-term evidence about potential effects from decades of use.
Typically, cholesterol drugs are used indefinitely but they are generally safe, said Dr. Sarah Blumenschein, director of preventive cardiology at Children's Medical Center in Dallas.
"You have to start early. It's much easier to change children's behavior when they're 5, or 10, or 12" than when they're older, said Blumenschein, who treats many children with high cholesterol and supports the screening advice.
A different group of government advisers, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, concluded in 2007 that there's not enough known about the possible benefits and harms to recommend for or against cholesterol screening for children and teens.
One of its leaders, Dr. Michael LeFevre, a family medicine specialist at the University of Missouri, said that for the task force to declare screening beneficial there must be evidence that treatment improves health, such as preventing heart attacks, rather than just nudges down a number — the cholesterol score.
"Some of the argument is that we need to treat children when they're 14 or 15 to keep them from having a heart attack when they're 50, and that's a pretty long lag time," he said.
The guidelines also say doctors should:
• Take yearly blood pressure measurements for children starting at age 3.
• Start routine anti-smoking advice when kids are ages 5 to 9, and counsel parents of infants not to smoke in the home.
• Review infants' family history of obesity and start tracking body mass index, or BMI, a measure of obesity, at age 2.
The panel also suggests using more frank terms for kids who are overweight and obese than some government agencies have used in the past. Children whose BMI is in the 85th to 95th percentile should be called overweight, not "at risk for overweight," and kids whose BMI is in the 95th percentile or higher should be called obese, not "overweight — even kids as young as age 2, the panel said.
"Some might feel that 'obese' is an unacceptable term for children and parents," so doctors should "use descriptive terminology that is appropriate for each child and family," the guidelines recommend.
They were released online Friday by the journal Pediatrics.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 06:54
artp3377 artp3377 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 84
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 261/251/210 Male 72 in
BF:
Progress:
Default

CRIMINAL...SHOCKING...OUTRAGEOUS. Anyone following this advice is not doing their job as a parent. These drugs are among the most dangerous ever approved.
be well
Art
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 08:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,675
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

What a disgusting idea! This is going to do even more damage to children than it would to an adult.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 09:20
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default

Any doctor that suggested I put my kids on cholesterol drugs wouldn't be our doctor for long.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 09:31
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

The report I saw on ABC said parents at first tried a "healthy diet" and that "didn't help."
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 10:27
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,675
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
The report I saw on ABC said parents at first tried a "healthy diet" and that "didn't help."


When will someone take the next step and go "If a healthy diet didn't help, maybe it's not so healthy, is it?"
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 11:25
cnmLisa's Avatar
cnmLisa cnmLisa is offline
Every day is day one
Posts: 7,776
 
Plan: AtkinsMaintenance/IF
Stats: 185/145/155 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 133%
Location: Oregon Coast
Default

And....they probably forgot the message that statins in women can impact fertility. Women on statins should be using a realiable method of birth control. Statins and fetal development Research has shown that the average age of first intercourse--13-14 years old (and tell me how reliable this population is for using cnsistent reliable methods of birth control). I'm sure I'll be seeing these patients down the road. Sad.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Sat, Nov-12-11, 11:41
kvcooks's Avatar
kvcooks kvcooks is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,831
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/138/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Chicago
Default

Sure enough, there is an article about the same thing on the front page of the Chicago Tribune today. These people make me ill. It seems like big pharma has most scientists, doctors and the FDA in their pockets. I'm 52 and refuse to go on statins because of what I know. No telling what the long-term use effects will be on children of both sexes. This is craziness.

Last edited by kvcooks : Sat, Nov-12-11 at 11:44. Reason: can't link to article
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Mon, Nov-14-11, 07:06
artp3377 artp3377 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 84
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 261/251/210 Male 72 in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Sadly, when the government takes complete control of our health care [we are almost there] they will probably mandate compliance. Some HMO's are already doing this. The pressure to comply will be unbearable and most parents will cave. The drug companies are way too powerful and our politicians way too weak. This is very serious. I fear for the future.
be wsell Art
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Mon, Nov-14-11, 07:42
kvcooks's Avatar
kvcooks kvcooks is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,831
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/138/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Chicago
Default Lipitor Rage?

You know, I guess I'm more aware of information about statins because of what I've read here and because my doctor has threatened to prescribe them for me. This article on Slate.com caught my attention this morning; it'll be interesting/terrifying to see what effects there are on children...of course we may never know until it's too late. I wonder if anyone on these forums has experienced anything like this.


Quote:
Lipitor Rage
If statins carried a rare but serious side effect, would we ever find out?
By Christie Aschwanden|Posted Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2011, at 10:21 AM ET


The FDA is not equipped to track rare but serious side effects of drugs like Lipitor

Patient 1 wanted to kill someone. Normally even-tempered, the 63-year-old man found himself awaking with an uncontrolled anger and the desire to smash things. His violent impulses started after he began taking the cholesterol-lowering statin Lipitor and they vanished within two days of quitting the drug. Patient 2 developed a short fuse after he started on Zocor*, another popular statin. The 59-year-old felt an impulse to kill his wife, and once tried, unsuccessfully, to do so. His violent tendencies subsided within a few weeks of stopping Zocor. Patient 3, a 46-year-old female, became unusually irritable while taking Lipitor, repeatedly blowing up at her husband for no reason. Like the others, her uncharacteristic behavior disappeared after she quit taking statins.
Physician Beatrice Golomb at the University of California-San Diego has collected thousands of anecdotes like these through her website, Statineffects.com, and she’s convinced that these drugs—taken by one in four Americans over the age of 45—can provoke severe irritability and violence among a tiny subset of users.

While it might seem crazy to blame bad behavior on a drug that’s prescribed for your heart, such effects are not unprecedented. Violent behavior has been linked to at least 31 other medications, such as tobacco cessation aids and antidepressants, and the notion that lowering cholesterol might make someone violent or aggressive has some scientific basis. Monkeys put on cholesterol-reducing diets become more aggressive, and numerous studies have linked low or lowered cholesterol toviolent behavior in people, too. For instance, one study compared the cholesterol measurements of nearly 80,000 Swedes who’d enrolled in a health-screening project against police records and found that violent criminals had significantly lower cholesterol levels than noncriminals. Golomb points to low serotonin levels, which are also associated with low cholesterol, as a possible cause.
Still, the link between statins and behavior has been widely rejected by the medical community. “Golomb is a nut case,” says cardiologist Steven Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic, a vocal advocate for drug safety who refuses to take money from drug companies. None of the randomized, controlled trials done on statins have turned up this side effect, he says, and absent some rigorous evidence, the link between statins and violence is nothing more than speculation. “I’m not a tool for industry, but I also don’t want to scare people away from life-saving drugs because of fringe ideas,” he says, before urging me not to write this story at all.
There’s no question that Golomb’s idea is fringe, and from a public health standpoint, the benefits of statins—which can cut the risk of a second heart attack by about one-third—almost certainly outweigh whatever small risks of violent behavior they might, in theory, pose, at least for people with existing heart disease. (The benefits for people without heart disease are less clear.) Regardless, the overwhelming majority of people who take statins don't become violent, nor do they try to kill their spouses. Statins have prevented thousands of deaths, and it may be the case that Golomb’s theory about how they affect mental health is total bunk.
But right or wrong, this work highlights a worrisome problem. The Food and Drug Administration's system for tracking drugs' side effects is simply not equipped to detect rare but serious problems. By definition, these would be so uncommon as to slip by the initial studies that are used to create pharmaceutical warning labels. Such studies typically involve just a few thousand patients, so any response that affected a tiny sliver of the population would scarcely show up. Once a new drug hits the market, it's up to consumers and their doctors to report any unusual side effects to the FDA, and if the side effect were completely unexpected (as in the case of violent behavior), not all of these sufferers would think to consider whether the new symptom might be related to the drug.
When you’re prescribing a pill to treat a life-threatening disease, you might not worry too much about whether it carries a very rare side effect. Even if someone were to become irritable or violent while taking a powerful antibiotic, that would be a small price to pay for curing a potentially fatal infection. The infrequent side effect becomes more of an issue when you're talking about blockbuster drugs that are used in preventive medicine, however. Such medications are prescribed to millions of people throughout the country, as a way of warding off disease before it ever shows up. Even if a very small subset of these patients developed an unusual side effect—statin-related aggression or otherwise—then we might be talking about thousands of victims who were never that sick to begin with.
Nissen himself calls the FDA’s approach to dealing with drug side effects “woefully inadequate.” Once a drug has been approved for sale, the FDA looks out for so-called “adverse drug events” (ADEs) through a computerized system called MedWatch. Patients, doctors, and other health care professionals voluntarily submit ADE reports, but a 2002 Journal of the American Medical Association report estimated that more than 90 percent never get reported, since the system is voluntary and there are no real incentives for anyone to share their experiences. It's also not clear what happens to information once it's entered in the database. An FDA representative told me that staff members routinely monitor the database and they have an internal system in place for deciding when to look into a particular ADE, but there are no publicly stated rules about what it takes to trigger a formal government investigation.

Side effects are inherently difficult to pin down. In a previous Slate column on whether birth-control pills cause weight gain, I explained how easy it is for people to misattribute a symptom to a drug they’re taking. If you happen to develop a problem soon after starting on a new medicine, you’ll have no trouble deciding what’s to blame. The people who reported aggressive or violent behavior to Golomb after taking statins may have been affected by their prescription drugs, or they may simply have had an unrelated episode that happened to coincide with a new treatment. Golomb classifies a behavior as being “linked” to the drug if it began after the drug was initiated, went away when the drug was withdrawn, and reappeared if the drug was taken again. These criteria make sense, but they, too, can provide only suggestions, not definitive proof. Behavior is subjective and malleable, and inherently difficult to measure. Golomb recalls one patient who insisted, over his wife’s objections, that he wasn’t more irritable while taking statins. His wife just happened to be more irritating during the time when he’d been taking them.
More convincing evidence might come from a case control study in which people who showed violent behavior over a given time period are compared with similar people who didn't. If more of the violent folks were taking statins, that would be another warning sign. Even stronger would be a double-blind study in which violence-prone subjects were dosed with either a statin or a placebo. In any case, Golomb herself has conceded that the evidence to support her claim is a little shaky. In a case series published in 2004 in QJM, she notes that the link might be just a chance association. Seven years later, she's collected enough anecdotes to convince her that the link is real, and she's now recruited a geneticist at the University of British Columbia to look for genetic variants that could make people susceptible to becoming violent on statins. If a genetic link can be found, it would offer another hint that the problem exists in the first place, as well as a way for doctors to screen their patients before prescribing the drug.
What about the FDA? The key to finding rare side effects is to create a database large enough to spot them, and the administration could potentially do this by requiring drug companies themselves to monitor for side effects after their drugs go on sale. The FDA already asks manufacturers in some cases to conduct phase IV trials, which track the drug once it’s on the market, but they could make these trials mandatory for all new drugs, with a set deadline and stiff penalties for those who don’t comply. (A 2004 editorial in JAMA stated that fewer than half of the postmarketing studies that drug companies promised to conduct were actually completed, and many of them weren’t initiated in the first place.) The FDA could also require companies to send detailed surveys to a large cross-section of patients taking a drug to monitor for side effects. As electronic medical records become more common, these could also be scoured for conditions that turned up after a patient began a new drug.
The consensus view among doctors holds that statins pose no mental-health risks to consumers, and for the moment there's not much reason for most people to worry about becoming violent while taking the drug. But history has shown that many important drug side effects are slow to gain recognition—a 2002 JAMA study showed that only half of all serious drug side effects are detected within seven years of the drug’s approval. No one but Golomb seems to be tracking behavioral side effects associated with statins. Without the benefit of a more systematic national monitoring system, we don't have much else to go on.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Fri, Nov-18-11, 15:33
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

As one of the commenters said on one of the article websites: If your doctor prescribes statins for you child and you refuse to allow it can he then report you to the authorities for child neglect?
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Fri, Nov-18-11, 17:03
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
Posts: 8,764
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

I'm not aware of any statin drug trials that involved children.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Sat, Nov-19-11, 10:52
girlbug2's Avatar
girlbug2 girlbug2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,091
 
Plan: Ketogenic paleo
Stats: 186/167/125 Female 5'4"
BF:trying to quit
Progress: 31%
Location: So. California
Default

Doctors also prescribe immunization shots which parents are able to refuse and to my knowledge they are not reported for child neglect, so it would seem we still do have some freedoms left. At least for now.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Thu, Dec-01-11, 07:49
artp3377 artp3377 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 84
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 261/251/210 Male 72 in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by girlbug2
Doctors also prescribe immunization shots which parents are able to refuse and to my knowledge they are not reported for child neglect, so it would seem we still do have some freedoms left. At least for now.


I think Hans said the same thing in Berlin many years ago.
The statist's are patient and persistent, chipping away, little by little. And if they get a chance to take a big bite they take it.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Wed, Aug-21-13, 22:20
KrisJ KrisJ is offline
New Member
Posts: 21
 
Plan: General
Stats: 228/200/140 Female 5 ft 3 in
BF:
Progress:
Question

Have not gotten all details yet but my 11 yr old niece had dr appointment today for well check before school starts. Gramma took her and called me right after, my niece has always had high cholesterol, they say it is in her genes inherited from her dads side of the family. Total number was something like 220, but the triglycerides were 300! Now I truly am worried. Dr sending us to "classes" on what to eat. I will know a bit more details when I get the actual lab report back. A bit more info, this is my great niece whom I have custody of, I myself am 58, obese and type 2 diabetic. Numbers were good when I low carbed, fell off the wagon and now gearing myself up to get back at it. I am at a loss on how to help an 11 yr old though (I suspect her sugars run high also, dr did not check them this time is more concerned with cholesterol ) They have been elevated in the past. Strict LC? Moderate LC? Will changing diet help when the poor numbers are also connected with genes?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.