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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Jan-22-12, 02:40
Hiro-p's Avatar
Hiro-p Hiro-p is offline
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Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins\Paleo\IF
Stats: 266/206/190 Male 67
BF:Going fast...
Progress: 79%
Location: Manchester, England, UK
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Good topic, last summer I spent every weekend slogging my mountain bike on 40-60 mile routes around north west england. I was not lc'ing then, and my food stops were a combo of sugar and carb load. Now that I am 5 weeks into my lc regime, i wanted to start cycling lightly (it's cold, it's january, i know too much exercise when trying to lose body fat is counter-productive) and am concerned about how I will fuel when the long routes come back into scope in a few months. My initial plan was to take small portions of dried fruit (cherries, berries) and hope the fructose got me through and try and control the carbs through small quantity. I know I can't carb load in the traditional sense anymore (pasta etc).

At the moment, on routes less than 20 miles I don't need to fuel at all. I also now commute to work by cycling 2 or 3 days a week - it's only 3.5 miles each way and I feel it's a really good companion to my lc regime - good way to start and end the day, and short exercise does add to suppressing my appetite.
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Feb-08-12, 10:16
wheeler's Avatar
wheeler wheeler is offline
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Posts: 666
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 234/216/170 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Alaska
Default New here, love this thread.

I'm 5 weeks into low carb and my primary exercise is cycling. My focus this summer will be bike commuting (25 miles one way, get a ride one way) and I keep reading about too much exercise making it hard to lose weight. I'm doing short rides now, 4-10 miles in cold weather, and want to increase without disrupting my weight loss. Any theories on how much is too much?
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  #18   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-12, 05:28
Rick 51 Rick 51 is offline
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Posts: 33
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/240/200 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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I think you are getting confused between weight loss and fat loss.
Per volume (however you want to measure it, cubic inch, cc, whatever) fat weighs less than muscle.
So let's assume that you somehow manage to, between weigh-ins, you manage to lose 1 lb of fat, and gain 1 lb of muscle.
You are right where you started, and achieved nothing, right?
No wrong. You are going to be smaller, as the 1 lb of muscle takes up less space than the lb of fat did, and you are raising you base metabolic rate (it takes more energy to maintain 1 lb of muscle than it does to maintain 1 lb of fat.
So if you were to keep this up, the exercise actually helps you lose weight. As your body becomes more toned, the weight loss increases.
If you want to read more about this, I would recommend the book Fit or fat by Covert Bailey. Good read, and it goes into the bio chemistry of how your cells use various sources of energy.

Myself, I ride 2-3 times during the week, 45-90 minutes and on weekends 30-50 miles on both Sat and Sunday. A few weeks back I rode 60 miles one Saturday to celebrate my 60th birthday. I will do a century ride this year.
One last thing, don't forget Dr. Atkins said in his book "If you aren't exercising, you aren't doing Atkins."
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  #19   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-12, 10:42
Hiro-p's Avatar
Hiro-p Hiro-p is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins\Paleo\IF
Stats: 266/206/190 Male 67
BF:Going fast...
Progress: 79%
Location: Manchester, England, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick 51
I think you are getting confused between weight loss and fat loss.
Per volume (however you want to measure it, cubic inch, cc, whatever) fat weighs less than muscle.
So let's assume that you somehow manage to, between weigh-ins, you manage to lose 1 lb of fat, and gain 1 lb of muscle.
You are right where you started, and achieved nothing, right?
No wrong. You are going to be smaller, as the 1 lb of muscle takes up less space than the lb of fat did, and you are raising you base metabolic rate (it takes more energy to maintain 1 lb of muscle than it does to maintain 1 lb of fat.
So if you were to keep this up, the exercise actually helps you lose weight. As your body becomes more toned, the weight loss increases.
If you want to read more about this, I would recommend the book Fit or fat by Covert Bailey. Good read, and it goes into the bio chemistry of how your cells use various sources of energy.

Myself, I ride 2-3 times during the week, 45-90 minutes and on weekends 30-50 miles on both Sat and Sunday. A few weeks back I rode 60 miles one Saturday to celebrate my 60th birthday. I will do a century ride this year.
One last thing, don't forget Dr. Atkins said in his book "If you aren't exercising, you aren't doing Atkins."


Completely agree with this. Psychologically, it's important to be losing weight as it keeps you on track, helps you get over difficult times when you could waver, but really a balance needs to be struck - being scared to exercise in case you don't see weight lose is a completely wrong midset and as you rightly point out, there ain't many advocates of high fat low carb no exercise - activity is a massive part of well-being and mental health - those are the things that make you strong enough so you can remain strong when the time needs.

Intrestingly Rik, your numbers are very similar to mine, as is your exercise regime - I am maybe not quite as regimented right now as I am still adjusting to not being able to carb load on longer trips. I salute you for getting out on the bike at 59 - thats just absolutely awesome.
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-12, 13:52
wheeler's Avatar
wheeler wheeler is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 666
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 234/216/170 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Alaska
Default Glad to hear it, I'm going for a ride.

Thanks both of you, just what I needed to hear. I keep telling myself this is about improving my health, not the number on the scale. I still seem to tire easily on any longer rides or climbs 5 weeks into Atkins so I'm not pushing it too much. I know that this is such a huge change to my entire body and the way it functions that I need to be patient.
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  #21   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-12, 07:33
Rick 51 Rick 51 is offline
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Posts: 33
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/240/200 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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wheeler I was going through the same thing, it does get better.
What I have found helps is taking a small package of nuts like pecans, or mixed nuts, also I found packets of almond butter in the grocery store that I am using instead of Gu. I generally have some nuts or almond butter every 45 minutes or so.
Here is the link to the almond butter I am using.
Keep riding and I will see you on the road.
Rick
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Mar-18-12, 08:48
Hiro-p's Avatar
Hiro-p Hiro-p is offline
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Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins\Paleo\IF
Stats: 266/206/190 Male 67
BF:Going fast...
Progress: 79%
Location: Manchester, England, UK
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26 miles today, ate 6 rashers of bacon before going out, 2 water stops on route - absolutely no problem.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Mar-28-12, 23:02
cpsnow cpsnow is offline
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Posts: 112
 
Plan: No added sugar/nostarches
Stats: 193/174/170 Male 6'-0"
BF:
Progress: 83%
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I'm totally new to LC (started a week ago) and I'm concerned about how I'll avoid bonking on long rides. I tend to go out for 30 to 60 mile rides in warm weather, and I push the speed. I'm averaging 18-19 mph over a couple hours, and I'm used to keeping up my energy with carbs. I've heard all the good ideas in this thread, but I'll have to prove to myself that I'll have the necessary stamina. I'll try nuts, but wonder whether they'll be absorbed quickly enough. We'll see!
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, May-23-12, 09:49
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Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,018
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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I'm not a cyclist or endurance exerciser, but has everyone seen Mark Sisson's article on how to fuel a marathon? Not that everyone is training for a race but there's some interesting info on how much and what kind of carbs to add, based on your exercise.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-.../#axzz1vhyCWjec

also google "sisson endurance exercise"
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  #25   ^
Old Thu, May-24-12, 23:01
cpsnow cpsnow is offline
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Posts: 112
 
Plan: No added sugar/nostarches
Stats: 193/174/170 Male 6'-0"
BF:
Progress: 83%
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Thanks Seejay. I wish it would address quick-burst sports like tennis. I find LC affects my tennis more than my cycling. Endurance seems ok. It's quick energy and recovery between points that has suffered, though a fruit a few hours earlier has helped.
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, May-25-12, 15:38
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Posts: 3,018
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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I'm a quick burst sports lover too.

Maybe you could start with doing the math based on the standard formulas of carbs and intensity, and see how you do? And adjust from there?
I don't do much (being still too heavy) but that's what I would do.

For instance, a quick search on "tennis calories per hour" and "percent fat burned intensity exercise" turns up 728 calories for a 200 pound person. Course they don't say how much of that 200 pounds is fat but oh well.
Of those calories, if you are at high intensity heart rate, and your metabolism is like the mythical math average (ha), 40% of that energy might come from fat, and 60% might come from carb.
That would be 436 calories of carb, and dividing by 4 cals per gram, 109 grams of carbs.
So if you are needing 109 grams of carbs for an hour of tennis, it has to come from somewhere! Or else you get no energy for recovery between points. Yuk.

Mark Sisson has written that a fat burner makes better use of glucose so over time you don't need as much as a sugar burner for the same exercise, but still, that is more carb than non-athletes need for sure.

Somewhat aside - I think of energy partitioning a little more detailed than from the "car fuel" analogy. Glucose is like the energy in spark plugs - must have it for starting at all, for bursts, and for acceleration. Fat is like the energy in gasoline. If you are exercising hard, you need way more sparks than when idling. For those bursts and to keep up speed. Just like RPMs in a car. More RPMs, more sparks, more glucose.
(you also don't want sparks/glucose coming too fast if you are not using them, ha ha)
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, May-27-12, 00:22
cpsnow cpsnow is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 112
 
Plan: No added sugar/nostarches
Stats: 193/174/170 Male 6'-0"
BF:
Progress: 83%
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I appreciate the quantitative approach, Seejay. I've not eaten fruit since I began this woe in march. But I'm near goal, so I'm more willing to start to do that. The exception was two bananas during two crucial tennis matches at the end of the indoor season in April. One three hours before to replenish glycogen stores a bit, and the other half an hour before the match. Made a huge difference.

Ive been so determined to get to goal, and my weight loss has been so steady, that I haven't wanted to disrupt it at all.
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  #28   ^
Old Thu, May-31-12, 09:35
cfunderb cfunderb is offline
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Posts: 1
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 221/189/180 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress:
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Steve Phinney on LC + Cycling 60+ miles.

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011...than-high-carb/
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  #29   ^
Old Thu, May-31-12, 22:43
cpsnow cpsnow is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 112
 
Plan: No added sugar/nostarches
Stats: 193/174/170 Male 6'-0"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

Thanks cfunderb. He seems quite positive, but the only test that matters to me is my own experience. I'm not prepared to draw final conclusions. It's been 10 weeks with under 20 gms carb/day. I think my cycling stamina is improved from 6 weeks ago, but I have been riding much more. I think my overall performance is reduced from last year, but not as much as I would expect judging from my tennis. I will continue to make a careful study of this. I am not happy to hear his opinion on "Train low, race high."
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  #30   ^
Old Sun, Jul-22-12, 07:46
lowinpa lowinpa is offline
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Posts: 2
 
Plan: lchf
Stats: 159/148/140 Female 65.5"
BF:
Progress: 58%
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I am returned a few days ago from a four-day loaded (camping equipment, etc.) bicycle tour, about 50 miles a day over gently rolling terrain. I've been LC since March, and was worried about getting enough/the right foods on the road. And worried about my energy level. While riding, I snacked on beef jerky and homemade glop of coconut oil/crushed nuts/coconut/unsweetened chocolate. I never lacked for energy and was not hungry. My ride was awesome. Thumbs up, LC and distance cycling.
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