Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Tips and Stalls
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sat, Apr-30-11, 09:16
Nica Nica is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: mindful/ketogenic-Paleo
Stats: 165/111.8/110 Female 164cm
BF:38%/21%/18%
Progress: 97%
Location: UK
Default How fats shifted my stall

I lose weight steadily when dieting so a two week stall is significant for me. Also, it coincided exactly with a change in diet.

I was eating moderate carbs, reduced calorie (though not actually counting) and losing about 2lbs a week for a few months.
Then I decided to get back on the Atkins plan properly and continued losing on low carbs. I actually slowed to .5lbs loss a week. Still fine of course, but I thought it odd.

Influenced by Protein Power and their ilk, I decided on doing a few days to a week of zero carbs. After the first day I put on weight. 2nd day again, 3rd day again. I think I gained about 3lbs!

I went back to low carb and have simply stalled.

I was totally confused and thinking on it came up with the idea that my body was behaving as if it was on high carbs. Not as far as cravings (appetite was still well suppressed) but with the instant weight gain. But as I had been on a meat diet (and around 1000 cals), how could that be?

It felt like my body was using protein as a sugar (I think that many LCers don't realise that a zero carb food, protein, turns into sugar in the body). I also thought how the only macronutrient that cannot be used as a sugar is fat.

Two days ago I shifted by percentages from (approx) 60-70% protein 20-30% fats 10% carbs, to (approx) 70% fat 20% protein 10% carbs.

First day I lost 1lb - Holy lipids!

Day 2: 1lb loss. - yikes
Day 3: .2lb loss - now I'm on my usual weight loss track!

My body was behaving as if it was carb-filled! You know, that super quick weight loss when you go from a carby diet to a low-carb one. Water weight.

Googling this, I found plenty of talk about it of course, including a famous diet -The Rosedale Diet. I'm not following any specific diet plan, just fiddled with my macronutrients. (google leptins if you want to geek out). Of course for every claim there is always a counter-claim - I do what works.

This might be the answer to those on long stalls or with only 10lbs to lose or if on extreme low carb for some time.
For some people, I know that carb-cycling works very well. For me it just goes up and down exactly. Too sensitive to carbs? I know I can feel perfectly happy on zero carbs whereas others need at least 40g a day to feel good.

So for someone like me, it seems like my body was determined to feed off sugars and high protein consumption made my body treat it as such. With fats, it has no choice. We all want to be in fat-burning mode but for some of us lots of protein could be stopping us from getting there fully.

I've been thinking Low Carb, Low Carb for a few years, but now my mantra might be - High Fat, Low Carb. I'll get back to you in a few weeks with progress.

Anyway, just wanted to share this in case it helps someone else. I'm sure it's been spoken about before. But helpful for a newbie.

Last edited by Nica : Sat, Apr-30-11 at 09:33.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sat, Apr-30-11, 09:36
lizzyLC's Avatar
lizzyLC lizzyLC is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,143
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 154/143/130 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: PNW
Default

Yes, keep us posted Nica.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sun, May-01-11, 04:45
Nica Nica is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: mindful/ketogenic-Paleo
Stats: 165/111.8/110 Female 164cm
BF:38%/21%/18%
Progress: 97%
Location: UK
Default

Hi Lizzy.

I lost another pound this morning and that included 2 tablespoons of peanut butter around 5pm! I had approx 300 extra calories in total.

3.2lbs in 4 days. I need to slow down.

So this is giving me the chance to add more calories without feeling stuffed (it's wonderful that protein helps us feel full but I end up feeling stuffed when eating a lot of it).
The other benefit is eating more of the yummy things, like PB

This morning I've gone for a high fat fruit smoothie and will accept extra carbs for the day.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, May-06-11, 03:43
Nica Nica is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: mindful/ketogenic-Paleo
Stats: 165/111.8/110 Female 164cm
BF:38%/21%/18%
Progress: 97%
Location: UK
Default

I've lost another 2.2lbs. I maintained for a couple of days when I upped my calories quite a bit.

I'm now eating about 300 calories more from when I was initially stalled I'm but losing.

Psychologically it's also great because I'm able to include yummy fats, like PB,plenty of butter on my lc bread, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Fri, May-06-11, 04:57
sondora88's Avatar
sondora88 sondora88 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 424
 
Plan: Primal Blueprint
Stats: 202/175/150 Female 5ft3 / 63in
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: UK
Default

Hi - great post! Can I ask what foods you used to up your fat %?

I think that a 60-70% or more fat ratio is optimal for fat loss, but a lot of low-carbers (myself included) find it hard to keep up that kind of %, especially with the lack of appetite it brings about.

Your post reminded me I really need to take a week to track what I'm eating again, I'm sure I've lowered my fat% intake without even realising it, just because I've not been hungry! But I have been stalled a really long time, I need to be more proactive about breaking through it.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Fri, May-06-11, 07:51
xturkeyldy's Avatar
xturkeyldy xturkeyldy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,101
 
Plan: modified atkins
Stats: 184.0/141.5/152.0 Female 66.25 inches
BF:35%/???/???
Progress: 133%
Location: Arkansas
Default

Would love a sample menu or two, I just dan't imagine what you would eat to be lowcarb yet keep the fat that high.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, May-06-11, 08:27
Za'atar Za'atar is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 201
 
Plan: OWL
Stats: 280/249/175 Female 73.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 30%
Default

I figured out something similar starting about 2 weeks ago. I wasn't going anywhere. My ketosis was usually "nothing" or very light pink. I kept at the same weight I had started at. I began to poke around this forum and continue to read Taubes. Suddenly the word "fat" was all around. I remembered Atkins saying you had to be totally unafraid of fat, and we were trained to think that fat was the bad guy. I suddenly got the light bulb and decided to go "high fat."

I stopped eating even the 1 cup of greens, and raised my level of fat as high as I could.

The result is that I am now losing about 1 pound per day.

How to raise the level of fat in your diet? Sounds gross, but you have to actually eat fat, or oils.

There are also some foods. Tahini (ground sesame seeds) can be put in eggs. It is 5 grams of carbs, 3 of fiber (2 net carbs) 260 calories per 2 tsp serving, and of that 260, 200 are fat.

Mayo-- has a little sugar, so add 1 carb. 100% fat.

So when I have chicken, for instance, I add a lot of mayo and make a "chicken salad" type dish. Add butter, mayo, a mixture of oils.

I also eat mayo directly.

My meals have been pretty simple for the past 10 days.
Fatty ground beef patties and mayo. Chicken thighs and mayo. Eggs and mayo.

Hey, I never claimed to be a good cook! I want to save my life, not eat pretty food.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Sat, May-07-11, 13:41
Nica Nica is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: mindful/ketogenic-Paleo
Stats: 165/111.8/110 Female 164cm
BF:38%/21%/18%
Progress: 97%
Location: UK
Default

My menu sounds similar to Za'atar's at the moment.

The majority of my fats are coming from (in this order) olive oil, butter, nuts, full fat cream cheese, mayo, eggs, cream. Occasionally, full fat yoghurt.

A tablespoon of olive oil is something like
120 cals
13g fat
0g protein
0g carbs

butter is similar with a teeny bit of carbs.

A tablespoon of olive oil with mixed herbs, salt&pepper over roast chicken or a pork chop.
Or chicken with lettuce and mayo as a salad. Sometimes add slivered nuts.
Cream cheese and scrambled eggs cooked in butter.
Chicken in peppercorn cream sauce.
Tuna with mayo and olive oil.
Creamed mushrooms on LC toast.
Almond flour bread with butter.
Nut butters as a snack.
Cream cheese with a dash of lemon juice and splenda as a snack.

I only eat when I'm hungry, but higher fat is not as filling as high protein. Still filling, and hunger is controlled because low carbing and eating enough protein. It's a plus to be able to eat a little more and therefore fit in something tastier than just grilled meat.

With so many calories in fat, you will need to watch that and find your calorie amount to keep losing. We all know it's not easy to eat another piece of chicken, but really easy to throw in a tsp or more of oil/butter. Hopefully you'll find that you can eat a little more calories.

Last edited by Nica : Sat, May-07-11 at 13:50.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Sat, May-07-11, 17:29
kaylakala kaylakala is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,595
 
Plan: Paleo/atkins
Stats: 289/155/150 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 96%
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Default

LOL I like you "I do what works" approach. I"ve found I lose more when I eat more fat too. I choke down a couple tbsp of coconut oil every once in a while.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Mon, May-16-11, 16:26
techhunter's Avatar
techhunter techhunter is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: Atkins/Optimal Diet
Stats: 230/149.8/130 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Montana
Default

Yep, that's pretty much this "Optimal Diet" idea. I have ALWAYS lost best with fat, but my proteins have slowly crept up, because hey, they're low carb! :P

Anyway, I went on Hcg last November and lost 30 pounds, and I maintained it for a few months, but I found a thread on the "Boxing Ring" part of the Hcg forum and there was a brouhaha going on with a woman promoting JK's diet. It's on the Optimum Diet website. It involves ratios specific to each person, but the gist of it was that you want to ratio your Proteins:Fats:Carbs as 1(P):2-2.5(F):.3-.8(C). So, for me, this meant to maintain my weight, I would take my ideal weight (130 right now) and convert it to kg (59 for me) that's how many grams protein you need in a day, I think. Then you base your fat and carbs off of that, so mine would be 59g:118-147g:18-47g(P:F:C). I have scaled this down calorie wise, as that's what they recommend on the website, and have stayed at about 1:1-1.5:.4 every day this past week. I've gone from 161 to 153.2

Fat is my friend..........fat is my friend........fat is my friend........:P
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Tue, May-17-11, 03:15
Nica Nica is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: mindful/ketogenic-Paleo
Stats: 165/111.8/110 Female 164cm
BF:38%/21%/18%
Progress: 97%
Location: UK
Default

oh, that's interesting, I will have a go at working it out for myself. I would have to scale down as well to lose weight.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Tue, May-17-11, 10:51
shellbaby shellbaby is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 229/210/160 Female 5' 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 28%
Default

I just started a couple of days ago with eating way more fat. I have broken a 8 month stall this way!!!! I had been blaming my long stall on my BP meds and insulin. All I know is adding more fat and less carbs is working for me!! Thanks for the posts as they have really helped me!!
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Tue, May-17-11, 11:59
NortonMan's Avatar
NortonMan NortonMan is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 227
 
Plan: Maintenance
Stats: 208/170.2/170 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 99%
Location: Louisiana
Default

This is such an important concept! Protein being burned, in the absence of fat, taking you out of ketosis. Thank you for sharing it with us!

I checked and found this website with information that seems to back up what is happening:

http://www.insulin-pumpers.org/howto/pfandbs-2.html

Quote:
The first step in protein metabolism is to break it into its constituent amino acids. These are absorbed into the blood stream.

The second step is to break down the amino acids into their constituent parts--catabolism, if you want to get technical about it. This removes the nitrogen or amino group from the amino acids. The process is called deamination.

Deamination breaks the amino group down into ammonia and what is termed the carbon skeleton. Ammonia is converted to urea, filtered through the kidneys, and excreted in urine. The carbon skeleton--which is composed of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen--can then by used either for protein synthesis, energy production (ATP), or converted to glucose by gluconeogenesis.


The article ends with this:

Quote:
Most authorities believe that the amount of protein converted to glucose is quite small, except under conditions of intense exercise or metablic starvation. Under these conditions amino acids produce the major source of glucose for blood sugar maintenance.


So when glucose is low, the body has the choice of using ketones (from fat) or making glucose (from protein). This explains why Atkins emphasizes us getting plenty of fat in the diet.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Tue, May-17-11, 12:17
RaceGirl28's Avatar
RaceGirl28 RaceGirl28 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 965
 
Plan: Atkins Pre-Maintenance
Stats: 215/134.8/130 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Default

I have a tendendency to move to high protein, moderate fat, low carb which = stall. I am trying to add in more fat and less protein to bust down the next 10 lbs. It's hard! Last night i made pork chops and I coated them in crushed pork rinds and fried them in a butter/EVOO combo served with mayonaisse. I used to make that kind of food all the time, but have moved to the lower fat chicken....both my DH and i are in a weight loss lull, I have got to make more effort to put more fat back in. Thanks for posting this.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Wed, May-18-11, 04:10
Nica Nica is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: mindful/ketogenic-Paleo
Stats: 165/111.8/110 Female 164cm
BF:38%/21%/18%
Progress: 97%
Location: UK
Default

That must feel SO good shellbaby. Excellent!

Thanks so much for posting the science NortonMan, that will help many of us. I know I like things explained (although my body intuition is always first *grin*).

The same site also says:
Quote:
Fatty acids cannot be used directly to produce glucose. However, gycerol, a product of fat metabolism, can and does go through the gluconeogenic pathway to produce glucose. Glycerol is a minor component in fats, and accounts for only 9 to 15% of the total mass.

Fats are much less important than proteins in the gluconeogenic process.


RaceGirl28 let us know how it goes. Good luck!

I had a week of no loss due to carb up days (parties) and then having to lose the small gain. No problem - I thoroughly enjoyed the parties.

Back to regular program, weight coming off nice and steady again. I think I've lost 4.6lbs/2.1kg since the stall and going high fat. That includes some carb-up days (parties, eating out). So when I'm losing, I'm actually losing at the rate of about 1.5lbs a week.

Last edited by Nica : Wed, May-18-11 at 04:22.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:41.


Copyright © 2000-2017 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.