I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over a
number of years. From what I've read, it seems to be because
they eventually abandon their diets, and go back to their old
eating habits. Are there studies that show that weight regain
happens even when people continue to follow their diets?

  >'ve read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
  >weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over a
  >number of years. From what I've read, it seems to be because
  >they eventually abandon their diets, and go back to their old
  >eating habits. Are there studies that show that weight regain
  >happens even when people continue to follow their diets?

There are many people in SMN who have managed to loose weight
and kept it from coming back.

I have book knowledge but I do not have practical knowledge on
the weight issue.

We are here because our ancestors adapted to their
environment by improving nutrient storage capability and this
includes fat storage.

When diet is used to reduce calorie intake the body responds
to this change. It's no different from the response you would
see if the diet was low in vitamin C.

The Ornish Diet and the Atkins diet will both result in weight
loss but the Ornish diet has more of a difference in calorie
intake than the Atkins diet does.

The problem as you mentioned is that many people do not say
with their weight loss diet.

Exercise is generally a better way to acheive weight loss than
is a diet change.

With a diet change the body tries to conserve calories. With
an increase in exercise, calorie use is increased. But again,
if the change in activity level is not continued, weight can
come back.

Excess calories is the biggest problem with the diet of modern
man. There are many potential causes of why humans are so good
at storing excess calories as fat.

With regular exercise, you are not going to have to worry
about what kind of diet you are on. Have you ever seen an
obese marathon runner?

Within the U.S. the group with the biggest weight problem is
the Native American Indians. This group also has the highest
incidence of type 2 diabetes.

Yes, we made them eat our food but in reading material about
this problem, the biggest impact came when we restricted
their movement.

Indians hunted by running down their prey in the forest.
Horses were used sparingly and only in open areas for both
warfare and buffalo hunting. Most war parties traveled on foot
and indian camps were moved long distances on a regular basis.

Indians moved more on a regular basis than did the settlers.
But even for the settlers, movement was a regular part of
their life.

Now that food is abundant, we move less. This may be
geneticaly programmed into us. Less movement means more fat
that can be stored in case the food supply dries up.

Weight loss diets are almost a religion to some people.
Regular exercise is sometimes in the same boat. To counteract
the genes that we have inherited, an almost religious approach
may be needed for permanent weight loss.

There is no "best way" to deal with the weight issue. What
ever works for you is the "best way".

Marty B "You are what you eat"

On 3 Feb 2002 08:01:45 -0800, HBrook67~aol.com
(September) wrote:

  >I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
  >weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over a
  >number of years. From what I've read, it seems to be because
  >they eventually abandon their diets, and go back to their old
  >eating habits

This may be why "fad diets", even if they work for some
people, are discouraged by mainstream doctors and
nutritionists. Nobody can be expected to eat cabbage soup for
the rest of their lives and the view is that for a diet to
work in the long term, it would have to lead to long term
changes in eating habits. Most fad diets don't but neither
does the traditional "rabbit food and willpower" approach.

But that's only half the story. We all know that the body
tends to respond to diets as if they were famines and repeated
dieting can make our metabolisms extremely efficient. This
makes it hard to keep the weight off even by strictly
following the Jenny Craig maintenance program.

That's why I have been thinking that some people, particularly
those who were morbidly obese and lost 100 lbs or more, might
benefit by actually allowing their weight to rebound 10-20
pounds and then going on a less restrictive diet. Kind of like
dropping a basketball. It keeps bouncing back up but less high
each time. Eventually it comes to rest. Perhaps this might
retrain the metabolism to be more stable.

Hey, maybe I could become the next Dr. Atkins by publishing
"The Basketball Diet"

In article <55f47425.0202030801.1714c0d4~posting.google.com>,
September <HBrook67~aol.com> wrote:
  >I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
  >weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over a
  >number of years. From what I've read, it seems to be because
  >they eventually abandon their diets, and go back to their old
  >eating habits. Are there studies that show that weight regain
  >happens even when people continue to follow their diets?

#1 Way to keep weight off, make a permanent life style change
#where you get
more exercise. For me this was moving to San Francisco, I
don't own a car and unless I want to sit at home all day
every day I automatically get much more than minimal
exercise requirements. Being reasonably inshape encourages
more exercise, nice day and don't feel like waiting for the
bus? Its only a 2 mile walk each way (over hills) you will
make it there in not much longer than it would take if you
waited. This is still not what I consider real exercise, a
brisk walk up Mt. Tam (1/2 mile high) while running up the
last 100+ feet of stairs, or dancing like a demonically
possessed person for 8 hours at a rave (after walking
there, unloading a truck during setup, and the same for
teardown), now thats starting to be exercise

#2 Permanent diet change. I actually kind of screwed up here,
#getting that
much exercise I could get away with eating lots of cookies
and soda and not get too fat, my body was quite happy, but
now I seem to have intestinal yeast over growth, oops (its
quite real no matter what the high priests of medicine may
claim, wait another 15 years and checking for this will be
a standard part of all physicals).

I think exercise and not 'planned' exercise has to be the real
change. Park the car and walk to accomplish virtually
everything. Can't do that where you live? Does being healthy
matter to you enough to move to a place where you can use your
feet to get around (or a bike)? Unlike a treadmill or gym
membership this is simply part of your normal life, you won't
just stop because your tired of it one day. Not only will you
be healthier, and happier, you will help prevent smog, global
warming, and help to reduce dependance on mideast oil.

After that worry about eating better. In general
exercise seems to reduce irrational food cravings
(comfort food) anyways.

Does it work?

At age 17 I weighed 170lbs, at age 23 peaked at 230lbs (eating
no more than I had been recently), have been between 165 and
180 for the past 5 years (since age 30). Will probably weigh
less soon due to adjustments to fix the yeast problem, now I'm
worried about how I'm going to keep enough weight on. This is
a truly alien concept to me since I had been overweight since
my early teens.
--
Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts
of kindness Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a
Temporary Autonomous Zone. I'm looking for computer
hardware donations for charities, E-mail me. Available
for contracting
http://www.farviolet.com/~entropy/resume.txt

"September" <HBrook67~aol.com> wrote in message
news:55f47425.0202030801.1714c0d4~posting.google.com...
  > I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
  > weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over
  > a number of years. From what I've read, it seems to be
  > because they eventually abandon their diets, and go back to
  > their old eating habits. Are there studies that show that
  > weight regain happens even when people continue to follow
  > their diets?

Here are some conclusions from a recent USDA study of
weight loss.

--------------------------------------------------------
"The data from the US National Weight Registry shows that
90% of long-term weight maintainers consume a diet with 20%
to 30% of energy from fat, restrict total energy intake,
and participate in regular exercise. Only 9% of the
National Weight Registry sample maintains weight loss by
diet alone; and only 1% achieves weight maintenance by
physical activity alone.

Dieters consuming high-fat, low-CHO diets may lose weight
because the intake of protein and fat is self-limiting and
overall intake is decreased.

Low-fat and very-low-fat diets contain a high proportion of
complex carbohydrates, fruits, and vegetables. They are
naturally high in fibre and low in caloric density.
Individuals consuming these diets consume fewer calories and
lose weight.

In the short term, low carb, ketogenic diets cause a greater
loss of body water than body fat. When these diets end, water
weight is regained.

Eventually, all reduced-calorie diets result in loss of body
fat if sustained long term.

Physical activity should be used to enhance the effects of
diet on body composition.

Moderate fat-reduced diets are optimal for ensuring adequate
nutritional intake. However, poor food choices may result in
inadequate levels of nutrients (eg, calcium, iron, zinc)
regardless of overall food composition.

High fat, low carbohydrate diets are nutritionally inadequate.
They are low in vitamins E and A, thiamine, B6, folate,
calcium, magnesium, iron, zinc, potassium and dietary fibre;
and require supplementation. Such diets are high in saturated
fat and cholesterol.

Very low-fat diets (under 10%) are deficient in vitamin B12
because meat intake is low.

All fat-restricted diets provide a high degree of satiety.
Subjects who consume fat-restricted diets do not complain of
hunger, but of having too much food. Subjects who consume
these diets develop distaste for fat."
-------------------------------------------------------

Paul R

  >Subject: Discouraging studies on long-term weight loss From:
  >HBrook67~aol.com (September) Date: 2/3/02 10:01 AM Central
  >Standard Time Message-id:
  ><55f47425.0202030801.1714c0d4~posting.google.com>

  >I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
  >weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over a
  >number of years.

True. Fads always fade.

I utilize and recommend the Natural Hygiene diet and
lifestyle. The weight comes off and stays off as one regains
their health.

However, education is the key. Once people understand how
their body works, how and what to eat for satisfaction and
benefit, any needed changes are simple and easy to make.

The only real complaint that I have heard is from the women.
The hygienic men are too thin. Why is it that a wife wants to
plumb up her husband?

Cee

drceephd~aol.com (DRCEEPHD) wrote in message
news:<20020207030021.12229.00001437~mb-co.aol.com>...
     > >Subject: Discouraging studies on long-term weight loss
     > >From: HBrook67~aol.com (September) Date: 2/3/02 10:01 AM
     > >Central Standard Time Message-id:
     > ><55f47425.0202030801.1714c0d4~posting.google.com>
  >
     > >I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
     > >weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over
     > >a number of years.
  >
  > True. Fads always fade.
  >
  > I utilize and recommend the Natural Hygiene diet and
  > lifestyle. The weight comes off and stays off as one regains
  > their health.
  >
  > However, education is the key. Once people understand how
  > their body works, how and what to eat for satisfaction and
  > benefit, any needed changes are simple and easy to make.
  >
  > The only real complaint that I have heard is from the women.
  > The hygienic men are too thin. Why is it that a wife wants
  > to plumb up her husband?
  >
  > Cee

I don't want to count every calorie I consume, but I also have
to be aware of the energy I get from food. And also having an
understanding of how the body works, is helpfull.

I think long-term weight loss that was done through better
eating habits(ie. reasonble portions and having treats as
treats - not as common everday food) and exercise is
completely possible. But you cannot let yourself or others
sabatoge what you've achieved. And you cannot forget how you
once got fat. As soon as you think you've become a weight-loss
hero, it's easy to slip back into old habits. General Patton
said you should never end up having to fight twice for the
same piece of territory. A lot work and energy goes into
sensible weight-loss, and you don't want to throw it all away
by giving up your newly formed habits.

If you have a sensible diet 90% of the time, exercise will
help in counter-balancing that other 10%. If you exercise on a
consistent basis, it helps deplete some of your quick-energy
stores so that when you do take in new energy, the new energy
has a place to go instead of directly heading for your fat
stores. And if you pack on some extra muscle, energy that may
of previously gone straight to fat, can now be used as fuel
for your muscles.

I'll never understand when people even consider going on a
diets such as the "cabbage soup" diet. I guess the thought of
quick weight-loss clouds their common sense of what will
happen when they've lost the extra weight. It's like they
don't realize how they got fat in the first place.

drceephd~aol.com (DRCEEPHD) wrote in message
  >
  > I utilize and recommend the Natural Hygiene diet and
  > lifestyle. The weight comes off and stays off as one regains
  > their health.
  >
  > However, education is the key. Once people understand how
  > their body works, how and what to eat for satisfaction and
  > benefit, any needed changes are simple and easy to make.
  >
  > The only real complaint that I have heard is from the women.
  > The hygienic men are too thin. Why is it that a wife wants
  > to plumb up her husband?
  >
  > Cee

Okay Cee, my brain has recovered from CLA and fructose. I am
ready for additional stimulation.

Thin males are going to have a different action (effect) on
the pubic area of a female duing intercourse. Men put fat into
their lower abdomen and this softens the thrust impact on a
women's pubic area. Women have fat down there for the same
reason. Can I prove this? I can't put my hands on Journal
published literature but there is literature covering the sex
act in humans which gets into the role of fat in allowing
women to enjoy sex.

I have often wondered why most men put fat into the lower
abdomen first and it's the last to go. I like the sex
explanation but it may not be correct.

I thought that I had heard of all of the possible kinds of
diets but the Natural Hygiene diet is a new one for me.
What is it?

drceephd~aol.com (DRCEEPHD) wrote in message
news:<20020207030021.12229.00001437~mb-co.aol.com>...
     > >Subject: Discouraging studies on long-term weight loss
     > >From: HBrook67~aol.com (September) Date: 2/3/02 10:01 AM
     > >Central Standard Time Message-id:
     > ><55f47425.0202030801.1714c0d4~posting.google.com>
  >
     > >I've read a few studies that indicate that people who lose
     > >weight have a lot of difficulty keeping the weight off over
     > >a number of years.
  >
  > True. Fads always fade.
  >
  > I utilize and recommend the Natural Hygiene diet and
  > lifestyle.

Its axiomatic that in nutrition everyone else's diet is a fad.

  >
  > The only real complaint that I have heard is from the women.
  > The hygienic men are too thin. Why is it that a wife wants
  > to plumb up her husband?

For women, being emaciated is often considered attractive. For
men it isn't.

Jusitn