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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Mar-20-10, 20:34
cnmLisa's Avatar
cnmLisa cnmLisa is offline
Posts: 7,776
 
Plan: AtkinsMaintenance/IF
Stats: 185/145/155 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 133%
Location: Oregon Coast
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Dr. Atkins said that if you do not have a lot to lose or are beginning to get bored by your food choices then it is time to move on to OWL.

No matter what you do, your weight loss will slow down. Don't expect the big losses of induction. What you should expect is that weight loss is not linear and comes in fits and spurts.

With that said, follow the carb ladder slowly. Give your body time to adjust to each new food addition.

The OWL Carbohydrate Ladder

Detailed Version



1. Vegetables
More salad and other vegetables on the acceptable foods list

2.Dairy
Fresh cheeses:
˝ cup Cottage cheese
5 oz Farmers cheese
˝ cup Ricotta cheese
5 oz Pot cheese

Keep portions small for:
Hard aged cheese
˝ cup Cream, heavy and light
Half and half
Sour cream
Yogurt


3. Seeds and Nuts


1 oz serving
Macadamias
Almonds
Peanuts/Natural Peanut Butter
Coconut
Sunflower seeds
Sesame seeds
Walnuts
Pistachios


4.Berries
Eat frequently from:
Strawberries
Blueberries
Blackberries
Raspberries

Eat moderately from higher AGR melons:
Honeydew
Cantaloupe


5.Wine and other spirits low in carbs
Spirits
White Wine
Red Wine
Low-carbohydrate Beer


6.Legumes
Lentils
Kidney Beans
Pinto Beans
Black Beans
Hummus
Chickpeas
Tofu
Soybeans
Soy milk, unsweetened


7.Fruits other than Berries and Melons
Plums
Kiwis
Peaches
Apples
Grapefruit
Tangerines


8.Starchy Vegetables
Keep all portions small
Carrots
Green Peas
Acorn squash
Butternut squash

Eat rarely
Corn
Potatoes
Sweet potatoes


9.Whole Grains


Eat rarely
Keep all portions small and focus on whole, unprocessed grains:
Old fashioned Oatmeal
Oat Bran
Wheat Bran
Low carb (soy) bread and muffins
All-bran
Barley, cooked





CARBOHYDRATE LADDER

Simple Version


1. More salad and other vegetables on the acceptable foods list
2. Fresh cheeses (as well as more aged cheese)
3. Seeds and nuts
4. Berries
5. Wine and other spirits low in carbs
6. Legumes
7. Fruits other than berries and melons
8. Starchy vegetables
9. Whole grains






Stay below your CCL and you will experience ongoing weight loss. Go above your CCL and your weight loss stalls. (This will entail you of keeping track of your daily carbohydrate intake).




To determine your CCL:



Each week, you will incrementally increase the quantity of carbohydrate you eat beyond the salad and one cup serving of vegetables allowed during induction. These increments should be measured in five grams of daily carbohydrate.



During the first week of OWL, increase your daily carb intake from 20 grams a day on induction to 25 grams a day, going up ONE level. It is recommended to start at the first level which is non-starchy vegetables. As long as your weight loss continues steadily, you can go up another level—to 30 grams daily—the following week.



Note that few people will be able to add back all of these food groups in OWL. Those items on the second half of the list tend to rank higher on the glycemic index and are more commonly introduced in Pre-maintenance. Following the order of the carbohydrate ladder tends to minimize blood sugar surges that could activate cravings.



The lower your metabolic resistance to weight loss and the greater your physical activity, the higher your CCL will be.



RULES OF OWL:
  • Protein and fat remain the mainstays of your nutritional regimen
  • Increase your daily carbohydrate intake by no more than 5 grams each week
  • Add new foods in order listed on the carbohydrate ladder
  • Add one new group at a time
  • Eat a food group no more than THREE times per week to start. Then you may eat it daily.
  • If new foods provoke weight gain, or return of physical symptoms of such as cravings or increased appetite, stop that food immediately.
  • Continue doing OWL until you have 5-10 pounds left to lose

Remember that if you follow Atkins, you don't add all of these in at once. You have to test each of them out per week and see if they affect your weight loss. (Not all carbs are equal. Some stall on nuts or dairy).



Atkins is all about finding what's right for your body, and that's really good information to have in the long run.



My personal advice...

…is add in a new food every TWO weeks. I know this seems a bit slow for most people but I found this is really the best way to pin point foods that will induce cravings. This is how I found out that I don't tolerate strawberries---they turn me into a crave monsters. Black/rasp/blueberries I eat every day without problem.

HTH

Progress not perfection.

Lisa

Last edited by Kristine : Thu, Mar-25-10 at 07:09.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jun-14-10, 07:33
gweny70's Avatar
gweny70 gweny70 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,319
 
Plan: Figuring it out
Stats: 366/282.2/166 Female 5'6"
BF:YEP/YEP/YEP
Progress: 42%
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Bumping..

Thanks so much Lisa for posting this!

So I had come to the conclusion that I only loose weight following VLC...once I start adding carbs my cravings come back, the scale doesn't budge, and next thing you know I'm off plan entirely. Yet I physically don't feel too great on VLC after a few weeks.

Vitamin supplementation HAS helped..along with exercise..however after lurking on some very interesting and informative threads & reading some very wise posts from our LC veterans..I've realized (begrudgingly) that over the last couple years of doing LC on and off I've never properly followed the carb ladder as written in the Atkins book. How can I say that it doesn't work for me..if I've never tried it?!

I guess (no, I KNOW) it was my lack of my patience but I'm finally realizing now how important it is to do so. Maybe VLC isn't the only way I can eat & loose weight. Maybe ..ok definitely..the problem was my eating VLC and then at random times upping my carbs with MY choice of carbs & in too large of increments vs. following the ladder of foods & only adding 5carbs at a time.

And maybe I'll come to the same conclusion that VLC is what I need to do to loose weight..But unless I give the carb ladder a REAL shot--I won't know. So thanks again for this post & your may other similar posts..I needed to read this to get refocused and once and for all climb the carb ladder by the book...

So now I need to get focused..prepare to restart induction (for 2 weeks only) and then climb that carb ladder..one rung at a time!
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Oct-01-10, 10:04
LowCarbV's Avatar
LowCarbV LowCarbV is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 588
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 186.6/169/140 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Pinal county, Arizona
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Thanks Lisa and Gwen for your comments and information. I love this site for all it's information and the experienced Atkins people here!
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Nov-11-10, 10:56
RobinMcE RobinMcE is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 195/182.4/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: California, on the coast
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I am approaching my first rung of OWL and have some questions. The first rung is "1. Vegetables. More salad and other vegetables on the acceptable foods list."

So am I correct in interpreting that as meaning that I am to just add 5 more net carbs' worth of salad and vegetables that are on the induction list? So instead of eating 15 I eat 20 carbs' worth of salad and vegetables, and am still restricted to 5 carbs worth of other items?
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Nov-11-10, 10:58
Elizellen's Avatar
Elizellen Elizellen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,733
 
Plan: Atkins (DANDR)
Stats: 290/141/130 Female 65.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Bournemouth (UK)
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Yes - add 5 net carbs more veggies to however many you were eating on induction.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Nov-11-10, 11:30
RobinMcE RobinMcE is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 195/182.4/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: California, on the coast
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I was considering staying on induction for one more week, but frankly, there isn't much difference so I will commence OWL. I am a lifetime WeightWatcher, and I only did maintenance once (to get to lifetime status) and didn't do it right when I did do it. I am certain that the key to keeping weight off is learning how to eat right, so this time, I am going to commit myself to DOING IT RIGHT!!!
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Dec-28-10, 12:39
Requin Requin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 521
 
Plan: My own.
Stats: 206/194.4/155 Female 5'6"
BF:27.17%
Progress: 23%
Location: Thompson, Manitoba
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Alright, I'm a little confused.

I do my two weeks of induction, and I get to add 5gr of carbs/day. I add 5 more carbs of veggies first? I've never loved most of the acceptable veggies in the list, and anticipate getting to 15g of carbs is not going to be so easy. Can't I just start adding the 5g from the soft cheeses category?

Now- I add 5g of carbs each week, how long do I stay on each rung? I'm figuring on doing 2 weeks on the nuts, 3 weeks on the berries, and 2 weeks on the yogurt and soft cheeses (my New Atkins for new you has fresh cheeses with yogurt as rung 5- cream and hard cheeses are rung 2, but allowed in moderate amounts on induction...), then 2 weeks on adding the lemon/lime juice.

I couldn't care less if I never eat another legume, or if I never drink tomato juice, and really am not that concerned about adding in other fruits or grains. I will anxiously wait when I can add carrots back as I love them.

Other fruits, starchy veg and grains are all part of pre-maintenance in my book (New Atkins). This where I get confused.

If I go through the rungs and get to the point where I'd be adding in other fruit, but I'm still not 10lbs from goal, do I just stay at the rung I'm at, but continually add in the 5g of carbs/week?
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Dec-28-10, 14:04
cnmLisa's Avatar
cnmLisa cnmLisa is offline
Posts: 7,776
 
Plan: AtkinsMaintenance/IF
Stats: 185/145/155 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 133%
Location: Oregon Coast
Default

Alright, I'm a little confused.

I do my two weeks of induction, and I get to add 5gr of carbs/day. I add 5 more carbs of veggies first? I've never loved most of the acceptable veggies in the list, and anticipate getting to 15g of carbs is not going to be so easy. Can't I just start adding the 5g from the soft cheeses category?
Dr. A wrote the carb ladder for a reason. Green leafy vegetables have less of a risk of causing stalls or cravings than something like soft cheeses.

Now- I add 5g of carbs each week, how long do I stay on each rung? I'm figuring on doing 2 weeks on the nuts, 3 weeks on the berries, and 2 weeks on the yogurt and soft cheeses (my New Atkins for new you has fresh cheeses with yogurt as rung 5- cream and hard cheeses are rung 2, but allowed in moderate amounts on induction...), then 2 weeks on adding the lemon/lime juice.
Quote:

RULES OF OWL:
  • Protein and fat remain the mainstays of your nutritional regimen
  • Increase your daily carbohydrate intake to no more than 5 grams each week
  • Add new foods in order listed in the carbohydrate ladder
  • Add one new group at a time
  • Eat a food group no more than THREE times per week to start. Then you may eat it daily.
  • If new foods provoke weight gain, or return of physical symptoms of such as cravings or increased appetite, stop that food immediately.
  • Continue doing OWL until you have 5-10 pounds left to lose

Remember that if you follow Atkins, you don't add all of these in at once. You have to test each of them out per week and see if they affect your weight loss. (Not all carbs are equal. Some stall on nuts or dairy).



Atkins is all about finding what's right for your body, and that's really good information to have in the long run.



My personal advice...

…is add in a new food every TWO weeks. I know this seems a bit slow for most people but I found this is really the best way to pin point foods that will induce cravings. This is how I found out that I don't tolerate strawberries---they turn me into a crave monsters. Black/rasp/blueberries I eat every day without problem.





I couldn't care less if I never eat another legume, or if I never drink tomato juice, and really am not that concerned about adding in other fruits or grains. I will anxiously wait when I can add carrots back as I love them.
If you don't like items there is no place that says that you HAVE to add them. I couldn't care less for a legume either. They're just not on my radar. It's all about making and discovering food choices that work for YOU.

Other fruits, starchy veg and grains are all part of pre-maintenance in my book (New Atkins). This where I get confused.

If I go through the rungs and get to the point where I'd be adding in other fruit, but I'm still not 10lbs from goal, do I just stay at the rung I'm at, but continually add in the 5g of carbs/week?

It depends on if you're still losing or not. If you've determined your CCL and CCM than you know that you shouldn't exceed your CCL or you'll stop losing. You keep adding 5 grams until you stop losing (but you're not gaining)--that's your CCM. Then you back off to to where you were when you were losing. That's your CCL. If you can add all the rungs and keep losing, good for you. Many of us cannot incorporate the higher rungs and still lose. I use DANDR which has 9 rungs, NANY has 10 rungs. I like the DANDR ladder--because of DANDR rung 5 (no DANDR rung 5 in NANY )

HTH

Progress not perfection.

Lisa
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Jan-08-11, 19:19
Requin Requin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 521
 
Plan: My own.
Stats: 206/194.4/155 Female 5'6"
BF:27.17%
Progress: 23%
Location: Thompson, Manitoba
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Okay- tolerance of certain foods and CCM/CCL are two separate things. If (hypothetically) my CCM/ACE was only 40 carbs, that potentially would mean that I either a) never eat food from the rungs above 3, or b) progress through the rungs but maintain my carb count at 30-35 and proceed through the rungs- correct?

Here's why I ask: the limited diet I find really difficult, even for the short term. I really really miss my nuts, berries, and yogurt. But I do want to lose at least 40lbs over the next 4 months. I appreciate the point is going through the rungs to determine trigger foods. Could I not for example: after my 2 weeks of induction, add 5g of almonds for the nut rung/week, and 5g of raspberries for the next rung/week, then yogurt (I make a low carb/high protein/high carb yogurt) for the next week, and then simply keep that carb amount and carefully add individual items from the three 'rungs' that I have added? (provided of course that each time I added the food I don't start stalling or getting intense cravings.)

If I could eat induction veggies, my yogurt, almonds and raspberries for carbs, I could easily manage the 'diet' for months. That of course does not make for a good transition to maintenance, nor does it make it for a lifestyle. But- if I could just have those three things, I could easily and patiently work my way through all the other foods in the rungs and in order...

Were I to try that have I crossed the line of making the diet work for me and into making my own diet?
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-11, 09:46
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 29,974
 
Plan: SBD->atkins twist->paleo
Stats: 274/000/160 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 240%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Requin
Okay- tolerance of certain foods and CCM/CCL are two separate things. If (hypothetically) my CCM/ACE was only 40 carbs, that potentially would mean that I either a) never eat food from the rungs above 3, or b) progress through the rungs but maintain my carb count at 30-35 and proceed through the rungs- correct?

Here's why I ask: the limited diet I find really difficult, even for the short term. I really really miss my nuts, berries, and yogurt. But I do want to lose at least 40lbs over the next 4 months. I appreciate the point is going through the rungs to determine trigger foods. Could I not for example: after my 2 weeks of induction, add 5g of almonds for the nut rung/week, and 5g of raspberries for the next rung/week, then yogurt (I make a low carb/high protein/high carb yogurt) for the next week, and then simply keep that carb amount and carefully add individual items from the three 'rungs' that I have added? (provided of course that each time I added the food I don't start stalling or getting intense cravings.)

If I could eat induction veggies, my yogurt, almonds and raspberries for carbs, I could easily manage the 'diet' for months. That of course does not make for a good transition to maintenance, nor does it make it for a lifestyle. But- if I could just have those three things, I could easily and patiently work my way through all the other foods in the rungs and in order...

Were I to try that have I crossed the line of making the diet work for me and into making my own diet?

Hi,
I know that I just may get slammed for giving you my opinion as its based on my SBD experience, but here goes!!
If adding in those 3 things will help you stick to your plan and won't pull you off it, I say that its a good strategy for YOU! We each need to figure ways to make the journey as real for us as possible.
FYI- We get yogurt( 2 cups dairy daily) and 1 oz of nuts daily starting in the SBD phase I. The only things that we wait to phase II are fruits and starches.
As long as you still push further into the OWL phase and keep testing new foods and building up your level of the good and right carbs....I say you are doing it right for you!!

I waited to see if you'd get any responses since last night and nobody has answered you....so thats why I'm posting my opinion.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-11, 10:16
Requin Requin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 521
 
Plan: My own.
Stats: 206/194.4/155 Female 5'6"
BF:27.17%
Progress: 23%
Location: Thompson, Manitoba
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Aww- thanks Judy! I figured the Atkins people were sleeping or have better things to do on the weekend... For once in my life I'm actually trying to lose weight instead of just being healthy and its making me crazy...
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-11, 12:52
kazLaJauna's Avatar
kazLaJauna kazLaJauna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 902
 
Plan: Atkins Induction
Stats: 282/266.2/174 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location: Vacaville, California
Default Rungs

I think the point of the rungs is that you shouldn't add back some foods too early in your journey. Once you have been on the journey long enough to add back something and it isn't something that interests you then go onto the next rung! The idea is now that food is added to the acceptable list...add it or don't, it is now an option. The rungs just are a way of expanding the acceptable foods list in a slow methodical way.
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-11, 16:22
cnmLisa's Avatar
cnmLisa cnmLisa is offline
Posts: 7,776
 
Plan: AtkinsMaintenance/IF
Stats: 185/145/155 Female 5'5
BF:
Progress: 133%
Location: Oregon Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazLaJauna
I think the point of the rungs is that you shouldn't add back some foods too early in your journey. Once you have been on the journey long enough to add back something and it isn't something that interests you then go onto the next rung! The idea is now that food is added to the acceptable list...add it or don't, it is now an option. The rungs just are a way of expanding the acceptable foods list in a slow methodical way.

^^^^^^That.
I might add it's to keep those individuals from skipping from rung 1 to rung 9 with no other rungs in between.
Quote:

Hi,
I know that I just may get slammed for giving you my opinion as its based on my SBD experience, but here goes!!
If adding in those 3 things will help you stick to your plan and won't pull you off it, I say that its a good strategy for YOU! We each need to figure ways to make the journey as real for us as possible.


Judy--don't worry, I've got your back
I do have to agree to a point with Judy's post. If adding in those 3 items keeps you on the straight and narrow, then so be it. What I would say to that is....the entire point of the carb ladder--both DANDR and NANY is that the MAJORITY of your carbs come from the veg rung. MAJORITY. With the rest of your carb allotment taken up with the further rungs. If it's yougurt, berries and nuts, then make sure that you're adding in 1 item at a time a few times a week to gauge your reaction before adding in the next new item. Also, I would start off with a very small portion of berries when you add them in. Dr. Atkins wrote in DANDR that fruit has the highest propensity to stall weight loss and induce cravings.

Quote:
If I could eat induction veggies, my yogurt, almonds and raspberries for carbs, I could easily manage the 'diet' for months. That of course does not make for a good transition to maintenance, nor does it make it for a lifestyle. But- if I could just have those three things, I could easily and patiently work my way through all the other foods in the rungs and in order...


Sure it does for some individuals. There are some who may not be able to climb to the higher rungs of the ladder either due to weight gain or intolerance. Just because they are there doesn't mean that you HAVE to eat from all the rungs. You stop at the rungs/foods that either stall weight loss or are problematic for you. PERIOD. Dr. Atkins said that you should eat from the upper rungs sparingly--particularly rung #9--wheat and grains.

One of the reasons I don't stray to far from the path...I HATE INDUCTION. Everything about it. I like the variety--of different veg, nuts, dairy, and berries. I hardly ever eat from rung 9. I rarely if ever eat from rungs 6/legumes, 7/Other fruits--sometimes I'll eat 1/4 apple or 1/2 grapefruit, 8/starchy veg--I'll occassionally eat a 1/4 roasted parsnip and 1/2 roasted red potato, and as stated above--hardly ever from rung 9/maybe a WASA. I'm never getting rid of rung 5 So I both lost and am maintaining on the first 5 rungs. While losing, strict with dairy, berries, nuts, and alcohol to about 30-40 carbs per day--my CCL. Now in maintenace I average about 40-50 carbs per day--about 1800 calories average.

Quote:
If (hypothetically) my CCM/ACE was only 40 carbs, that potentially would mean that I either a) never eat food from the rungs above 3, or b) progress through the rungs but maintain my carb count at 30-35 and proceed through the rungs- correct?

Ummmm....no. Not really. What that means is that you don't eat ALL the rungs daily. One day you may decide to have a glass of wine instead of a dairy dessert, or you may want to have yougurt with nuts and a piece of chocolate so that day you don't drink any alcohol, or you may want roasted potato and parsnips with roasted brussel sprouts with dinner, so you don't eat any nuts that day. You get the idea....You don't eat all the rungs everyday. It's about balance.

Quote:

I figured the Atkins people were sleeping or have better things to do on the weekend.

Nope, just working--a girl has to make a living!

Quote:

For once in my life I'm actually trying to lose weight instead of just being healthy and its making me crazy...


I find that many people really want to make this harder than it really is. It's not rocket science. You just need to practice patience.

JMO. HTH.

Progress not perfection.

Lisa
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-11, 17:24
Requin Requin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 521
 
Plan: My own.
Stats: 206/194.4/155 Female 5'6"
BF:27.17%
Progress: 23%
Location: Thompson, Manitoba
Default

Quote:
One of the reasons I don't stray to far from the path...I HATE INDUCTION. Everything about it. [bold]I like the variety--of different veg, nuts, dairy, and berries[/bold]. I hardly ever eat from rung 9. I rarely if ever eat from rungs 6/legumes, 7/Other fruits--sometimes I'll eat 1/4 apple or 1/2 grapefruit, 8/starchy veg--I'll occassionally eat a 1/4 roasted parsnip and 1/2 roasted red potato, and as stated above--hardly ever from rung 9/maybe a WASA. I'm never getting rid of rung 5 So I both lost and am maintaining on the first 5 rungs. While losing, strict with dairy, berries, nuts, and alcohol to about 30-40 carbs per day--my CCL. Now in maintenace I average about 40-50 carbs per day--about 1800 calories average.
Rung 5 means little to me- I have at most two drinks a month, so little loss to me. I'm not sure if you misunderstood me- I'm not looking to add all kinds of nuts, all kinds of berries, or other soft cheeses/dairy. Just specifically, the raspberies, almonds, and yogurt. It is the lack of variety (and of things that are actually healthy) that is just killing me. And to think I'll have to wait 5 weeks before nuts? 7 weeks before berries? I have serious doubts I can last that long. Give me raspberries, yogurt, and almonds, and I can ignore every other food in every other wrung besides the veggie wrung- happily.

Quote:
Ummmm....no. Not really. What that means is that you don't eat ALL the rungs daily. One day you may decide to have a glass of wine instead of a dairy dessert, or you may want to have yougurt with nuts and a piece of chocolate so that day you don't drink any alcohol, or you may want roasted potato and parsnips with roasted brussel sprouts with dinner, so you don't eat any nuts that day. You get the idea....You don't eat all the rungs everyday. It's about balance.
Right- but if I stayed at the rung I found my CCM on, then I wouldn't be able to ever eat parsnips or potato as they're from a higher rung. I understand that you don't eat all the rungs in a day- but if you find your CCM before the higher rungs, you can't determine if those foods are ones that cause cravings, weightloss stalls, unreasonable bloat etc.. So wouldn't you still try to go through at least some of the rungs above where you found your CCM so that you could know that on a day you don't get carbs from nuts that you could have a half an apple? Or, in your case, if a person did have a CCM of 35, which is much below rung 5, should they then never have a drink?

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just trying to find the synergy of working the ladder and finding your CCM/CCL.

Quote:
I find that many people really want to make this harder than it really is. It's not rocket science. You just need to practice patience.
Patience and Math required? Sigh... lacking in both, the requirement also makes me crazy
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-11, 18:07
ImOnMyWay's Avatar
ImOnMyWay ImOnMyWay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,179
 
Plan: OWL
Stats: 177/151.8/135 Female 5'2"
BF:50.5/?/?
Progress: 60%
Location: Oregon, Los Angeles
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Lisa, what does "AGR" stand for?

Thanks!

*
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