Is it better to be thin and eat high-carbs or be fat and eat low carbs? : Low-Carb War Zone Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

#16 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 09:43

Matt51

Senior Member

Posts: 704

Plan: semi-low carb
Stats: 277/200/177 Male 69 inches

BF:
Progress: 77%

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by AimeeJoi

I don't think low carb makes us fat I think it makes me fat or better yet does not help me lose excess fat. I am aware that I cannot be on this diet for any length of time because it isn't satisfying to me and I constantly am looking for something else to eat to satisfy what I feel I am missing. But isn't that the excuse everyone uses for not being able to do low calorie diets? If I cant stick with it long term can it be any more successful? It seems to take just as much will-power as a low cal diet and to me feels just as unnatural. I also think low-carb is healthy IF you can stick to it. I realize it is not easy for me and I find higher carb diets to be easier to stick to and more reliable to make me lose weight.

The reason I turned to low-carb was because I read all the literature (including GCBD and NPD) and it makes sense to me and it scared me off of carbs. BUT I do not lose weight on low-carb, whether I am sticking to it or not. I have been doing low-carb for 14 years and have tried every variation and have read all the studies and I believe they are true but there also seem to be a piece of the whole health puzzle that is missing. Carbs cannot be the whole story.

My grandmother lives on bread and hershey bars and is pretty healthy for 85 yrs old (she still flips her mattress) DH's aunt lives on instant coffee mix, candy, cookies, whisky and cigarettes and is also rather healthy. The thing they both have in common is that they're thin and relatively active and neither of them restrict their calories. Even if I am eating theoretically healthy foods like meat and liver but I remain fat I'm not sure that is healthier than if I eat carby stuff but can be thin.

I am sure there are pieces of the puzzle missing. There are many odd changes going on - Americans foot sizes are much larger than in 1900, but height has stalled.

Try staying low carb - no enriched grain products - no supplemental vitamins - Eat a potato or sweet potato everyday, or grains like brown rice that have not been "enriched". They are filling and have vitamins. Eat mostly meat.

Do a Google search on folic acid, you will find all kinds of problems. If a woman is going to have a baby, she should eat some spinach to get folate instead.

Plastic pollution, magnesium deficiency, electromagnetic radation - there are many potential causes of obesity. Low carb is more likely to keep your weight from going higher than high carb. But you should always eat enough so you are not humgry. Then learn to accept yourself at the weight you end up.

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#17 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 10:08

Judynyc

Attitude is a Choice

Posts: 30,111

Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"

BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%

Location: NYC

Quote:

Originally Posted by AimeeJoi

I am aware that I cannot be on this diet for any length of time because it isn't satisfying to me and I constantly am looking for something else to eat to satisfy what I feel I am missing.

OK...then lets get specific with you as I don't know anyone of us who hasn't "missed" some old favorite food. I sure did and still do sometimes.

What I don't do is give into a mere thought about a food. Its just my mind doing its mindless/endless chatter and if I caved into that chatter, I'd be 300 lbs.
I had to identify exactly what I was missing....and it actually wasn't a carb food but a flavor like spicy or tangy...... sweet or salty. I started to cook to satisfy those tastes.

So what are you thinking that you are missing?

#18 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 12:04

Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline

I've decided

Posts: 16,864

Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"

BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%

I liked what Cajunboy47 had to say - and I agree.

AimeeJoi - can you give us some idea of what your idea of 'low carb' and 'higher carb' are?

I'm at the point where I find it much easier to just think in terms of groups of foods, rather than carb counts.

Cajunboy47 has a really important point though. What worked in the beginning for me isn't what's working now, or what worked six months or a year ago. Things change, and I think it's a good idea to test things out and try a new spin on things when you find yourself stuck or unhappy with your results and overall satisfaction levels.

editing to add: I can't answer your question about whether it's better to be "fat" on low carb or "thin" on high carb. It all depends on what you mean by low carb or higher carb, and as Martin said - if you mean 'thin' (does not necessarily equate to health) or lean and healthy.

#19 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 12:33

M Levac

Senior Member

Posts: 6,498

Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"

BF:
Progress: 5%

Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by AimeeJoi

Well, you can do what you want and nobody here is going to criticize you for it.

On the other hand, I'm curious why you can't stick to low carb. Is it because you don't want to? If that's it, how were you able to stick to it long enough to grow fat on it? And did you give the same effort you would have given had you really wanted to stick to it? Is it because you can't actually stick to a low carb diet even though you said you did it for a while? And if it's because you can't actually stick to it, what makes you go off plan? Do you eat some type of carbs, or anything else for that matter, that triggers some craving for carbs or something? Then have you tried getting rid of that trigger? I mean, it doesn't matter why you can't stick to it. What matters is that you can't stick to it. So don't. Do something else.

But then again, you said you've been eating low carb for 14 years. But then again again, you said you gain fat doing low carb. I don't know what to believe. I mean, if you have been doing low carb for 14 years, you should be somewhat of an expert compared to the rest of us here (I've only been doing low carb for about 3 years). You should know what makes you fat specifically, not just "low carb". You should be giving us advice. You say you've read GCBC so you should know that low carb just doesn't make people fat unless they have an underlying medical problem.

#20 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 14:10

jschwab

Senior Member

Posts: 6,378

Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches

BF:
Progress: 76%

"Plastic pollution, magnesium deficiency, electromagnetic radation - there are many potential causes of obesity. Low carb is more likely to keep your weight from going higher than high carb. But you should always eat enough so you are not humgry. Then learn to accept yourself at the weight you end up."

These are very important points.

I checked with hubby what he thought being thin and which he thought was better. He was VERY vocal about he'd rather be fat and healthy.

I dunno, it's such a big question. I mean, can you do what you want to do? Can you flip the proverbial mattress? How do we measure health? I ran two half marathons last fall but I weigh more than pretty much anybody would be happy weighing. Which is more important? Would I rather be thin and not do that fun stuff if that is what it took? Some of it is just philosophical about how you want to live your life, KWIM?

#21 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 14:16

Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 2,900

Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "

BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%

Location: Breaux Bridge, La

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Levac

you can do what you want
On the other hand
you can't stick to low carb
you don't want to?
same effort --- had you really wanted to stick to it?
you can't actually stick to a low carb diet
even though
what makes you go off plan?
have you tried getting rid of that trigger?
What matters is that you can't stick to it. So don't. Do something else.
But then again
you gain fat doing low carb.
I don't know what to believe.
if you have been doing low carb for 14 years, you should be an expert
I've only been doing low carb for about 3 years
You should know what makes you fat

I think what Martin's inadvertently saying is; no matter what diet any of us intend, or try, or do actually follow, it takes one thing in order to succeed at it...

"A Proper Mindset"....

Many diets fail, or rather, we fail at many diets...

We blame the diet, we blame anything and everything but ourselves. The reason we blame everything and everyone but ourselves is because our mindset is not proper. With a "proper mindset", we're never starting again, we're never trying something new, we're never saying something outside of ourselves is not working. With a proper mind set, we remain a work in progress, always changing the things we do in this ever changing world and as we change in it (age, weight fluctuations, environmental exposure, etc...).

With a proper mindset, we can start out with any diet, and as we monitor results and willingly make adjustments to see better results, our diets will adjust itself and truthfully, what we ultimately end up with will not even resemble what we started out with, especially if we keep coming back to the point of keeping a proper mindset.......

#22 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 17:37

Mister230

Registered Member

Posts: 32

Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 230/210/180 Male 5'9''

BF:
Progress: 40%

I strongly believe that once your lean body mass has been calculated and you determine how many grams of protein you need to nourish each lb of that lean body mass, it is only a matter of cutting back on the carbs as much as you can. Only the carb will affect the insulin and its amount will determine if you will gain, stay the same or loose weight. I must stress the fact that it is very important to measure all food as accurately as possible to elliminate any guess work. I would not think of doing low carb without my ounce/gram scale. The success of this program lies in how deligent you are in weighing your food, especially your grams of carbs.

#23 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 17:42

Judynyc

Attitude is a Choice

Posts: 30,111

Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"

BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%

Location: NYC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajunboy47

"A Proper Mindset"....

Many diets fail, or rather, we fail at many diets...

We blame the diet, we blame anything and everything but ourselves. The reason we blame everything and everyone but ourselves is because our mindset is not proper. With a "proper mindset", we're never starting again, we're never trying something new, we're never saying something outside of ourselves is not working. With a proper mind set, we remain a work in progress, always changing the things we do in this ever changing world and as we change in it (age, weight fluctuations, environmental exposure, etc...).

With a proper mindset, we can start out with any diet, and as we monitor results and willingly make adjustments to see better results, our diets will adjust itself and truthfully, what we ultimately end up with will not even resemble what we started out with, especially if we keep coming back to the point of keeping a proper mindset.......

BINGO!!
Well said Ron!!

I call it having a good attitude.

#24 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 17:51

Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline

I've decided

Posts: 16,864

Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"

BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajunboy47

Have to agree with JudyNYC - this is just excellent

I think we've all had to tweak/adjust things along the way at various points in the journey.

It's not broken or failed - as long as we keep going and make whatever little adjustments that may be needed along the way.

I guess it can be like a car - the thing needs a tune-up once in awhile. Some fine tuning, some balancing and adjustments are needed every now and then to keep the thing going.

#25 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 19:01

GlendaRC GlendaRC is offline

4 phases-use 'em all

Posts: 8,787

Plan: Atkins maintenance
Stats: 170/120/130 Female 65 inches & shrinking

BF:
Progress: 125%

Location: Victoria, BC Canada

Well I have to say, that I'm with Judy and Citrus ... this is NOT a diet in the usually accepted meaning of the term, this is a DIET in that it's our way of eating ... period! On maintenance I'm finding I can have the odd very off-plan dish in moderation. When I go out for dinner, rarely as it happens, I can order a baked potato with my steak and a double sour cream & bacon bits ... I usually take half of it home! Or, instead of the baked potato, some restaurants offer lemon meringue pie for dessert -- 3 or 4 times a year I'll succumb, and it really does taste as yummy as I remember, but when I do it that rarely it doesn't trigger cravings for me.

I grew up 60 - 70 years ago eating the average diet for that time and I was so skinny the whole family worried about me! Of course, we didn't have corner stores loaded with carby snacks <edit: besides that, allowances were unheard of so we couldn't have bought snacks if they were available!> and we spent all the time we weren't in school outside playing "kick the can" and "hopscotch" and skipping rope, and .... No TV, no computers and video games. GAWD, I pity today's kids!!!!!

Anyway, I guess the point of this is to say that one can be skinny eating carbs if they're the old-fashioned carbs ... I didn't gain weight until I quit smoking and started munching savory snackies.

#26 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 19:33

Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 2,900

Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "

BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%

Location: Breaux Bridge, La

Quote:

BINGO!! Well said

Have to agree with JudyNYC - this is just excellent

Well I have to say, that I'm with Judy and Citrus ...

I must say, this is probably a first.... 3 agreements in a row, this is the war zone, isn't it????

#27 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 19:35

Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline

I've decided

Posts: 16,864

Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"

BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%

Maybe we need to drum up some sort of argument?

#28 ^

Mon, Mar-22-10, 20:43

teaser

Senior Member

Posts: 15,075

Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches

BF:
Progress: 104%

Location: Ontario

Dr Bernstein gives Amylin to some of his patients to curb appetite. Amylin encourages the production of an enzyme that breaks pyruvic acid down to lactic acid. (Pyruvic acid is the first product when you break down glucose.)

They give amylin along with leptin to animals, it seems to make the leptin work better in reducing body fat.

Maybe the amylin works with the leptin because lactic acid is one step further from glucose than pyruvic acid is. Or maybe somewhere along the line, lactic acid itself somehow improves leptin sensitivity. I have no idea. All that talk of lactic acid bacteria and obesity? (Yogurt? Who knows?) The problem isn't just the carbs, it's what the body does with them.

My point in all of this is that there are reasons why low carb works better for some than others. And they probably aren't always the same reasons.

#29 ^

Tue, Mar-23-10, 05:47

Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 2,900

Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "

BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%

Location: Breaux Bridge, La

Quote:

Originally Posted by teaser

My point in all of this is that there are reasons why low carb works better for some than others. And they probably aren't always the same reasons.

True, but using myself for an example; Very low and no carb was what I needed for a while, then as I made adjustments in diet, exercise, had weight loss, etc.... my carb intake became just low and eventually became only moderately low... and my reasons changed....

My controversial point:

Everything changes and nothing stays the same!

and hec! Just as much as I love traveling, movies, etc.... I like my scoop of ice cream now and then, even if it is called poison by some....

Is my mindset wrong when I eat the ice cream? No!

I want to enjoy life and with the adjustments I've made with a proper mindset, there seems to be room in my diet to allow a little of this and than now and again. An improper mindset would be making me feel guilty for living.

I don't need to be harping on anyone who is struggling and not having successes and arguing that they need to do what I do or did, because in the future, I don't even know what I'll be doing.... Life is a crapshoot and then we die........

#30 ^

Tue, Mar-23-10, 12:39

Nancy LC

Experimenter

Posts: 25,865

Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67

BF:
Progress: 72%

Location: San Diego, CA

Look up "skinny fat". Skinny people probably aren't any healthier, and might be less healthy, than overweight people.