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  #61   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-10, 16:04
SheriS's Avatar
SheriS SheriS is offline
Princess PIA
Posts: 512
 
Plan: Atkins - Induction
Stats: 210/176.6/140 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: Illinois
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Nice read. Thanks for finding this.
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  #62   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-10, 16:09
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,151
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/160/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Please pass me the coconut oil...(hold the popcorn)
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  #63   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-10, 18:02
Allymich's Avatar
Allymich Allymich is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 171
 
Plan: atkins diet
Stats: 206/188/180 Female 5 5' inches
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: new york
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awesome!.. they are coming out of the dark ages
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  #64   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-10, 19:45
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allymich
awesome!.. they are coming out of the dark ages


Yeah but they remain reluctant. We are going to have to keep on keeping on. There was even a little support for those nasty, scratchy, whole grains. But at least they are saying that a 40 year old mantra has been a waste of time.
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  #65   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-10, 21:06
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I'm afraid I've figured out leptin. Great thing for a social-anxiety type to do. Peter at Hyperlipid helped. People actually showed up and gave me hell, for talking so much. Nobody else seemed to know what was going on.

The case for leptin as a regulator of glutamate.


My first clue that leptin might be a regulator of glutamate metabolism came from this study;

Quote:
Protein appetite is increased after central leptin-induced fat
depletion

Leptin reduces body fat selectively, sparing body protein. Accordingly, during chronic leptin administration, food intake is suppressed, and body weight is reduced until body fat is depleted. Body weight then stabilizes at this fat-depleted nadir, while food intake returns to normal caloric levels, presumably in defense of energy and nutritional homeostasis. This model of leptin treatment offers the opportunity to examine controls of food intake that are independent of leptin's actions, and provides a window for examining the nature of feeding controls in a "fatless" animal. Here we evaluate macronutrient selection during this fat-depleted phase of leptin treatment. Adult, male Sprague-Dawley rats were maintained on standard pelleted rodent chow and given daily lateral ventricular injections of leptin or vehicle solution until body weight reached the nadir point and food intake returned to normal levels. Injections were then continued for 8 days, during which rats self-selected their daily diet from separate sources of carbohydrate, protein, and fat. Macronutrient choice differed profoundly in leptin and control rats. Leptin rats exhibited a dramatic increase in protein intake, whereas controls exhibited a strong carbohydrate preference. Fat intake did not differ between groups at any time during the 8-day test.





Leptin seems to decrease appetite in rats only until fat mass is depleted. After that, appetite returns, and is similar in calories to non-leptin treated animals, but food preference changes to protein from carbohydrate in comparison to control rats. This suggests that rather than regulating calories, it regulates appetite for protein. In a similar way, insulin infusions will increase the appetite for glucose.

Now, glucose tastes sweet, so I wondered if there was a particular taste associated with leptin. I was looking for a protein taste, so umami seemed like a likely possibility. And umami is specific to glutamate.

So I needed a study showing the secretion of leptin in reaction to proteins. And I found it in this;
Quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Regulation of leptin secretion from white adipocytes by insulin, glycolytic
substrates, and amino acids

The aim of the present study was to determine the respective roles of energy substrates and insulin on leptin secretion from white adipocytes. Cells secreted leptin in the absence of glucose or other substrates, and addition of glucose (5 mM) increased this secretion. Insulin doubled leptin secretion in the presence of glucose (5 mM), but not in its absence. High concentrations of glucose (up to 25 mM) did not significantly enhance leptin secretion over that elicited by 5 mM glucose. Similar results were obtained when glucose was replaced by pyruvate or fructose (both 5 mM). L-Glycine or L-alanine mimicked the effect of glucose on basal leptin secretion but completely prevented stimulation by insulin. On the other hand, insulin stimulated leptin secretion when glucose was replaced by L-aspartate, L-valine, L-methionine, or L-phenylalanine, but not by L-leucine (all 5 mM). Interestingly, these five amino acids potently increased basal and insulin-stimulated leptin secretion in
the presence of glucose.




Unexpectedly, L-glutamate acutely stimulated leptin secretion in the absence of glucose or insulin.




Finally, nonmetabolizable analogs of glucose or amino acids were without effects on leptin secretion. These results suggest that 1) energy substrates are necessary to maintain basal leptin secretion constant, 2) high availability of glycolysis substrates is not sufficient to enhance leptin secretion but is necessary for its stimulation by insulin, 3) amino acid precursors of tricarboxylic acid cycle intermediates potently stimulate basal leptin secretion per se, with insulin having an additive effect, and 4) substrates need to be metabolized to increase leptin secretion.


Even though the flavour is glutamate, I kept thinking glutamic acid, it finally sank in properly today.

Various proteins stimulate leptin secretion in the presence of insulin or glucose. But only glutamate was found to stimulate leptin in their absence. This makes glutamate an excellent candidate for the protein regulated by leptin. The effect of other proteins on leptin secretion is likely an artifact of their interaction with glutamate, under the influence of insulin.

Glutamate metabolites feed into the krebs cycle at several points. Fat cannot be metabolized for energy without this cycle, which explains the apparent control by leptin of appetite which disappears once fat is depleted. This is clearly true. Not a theory, just an observation.

Poorly-regulated glutamate causes excitotoxicity in the brain, killing neurons. This is a protein needing careful regulation. The idea that disregulation of leptin/glutamate metabolism is involved in some neuro-degenerative disorders seems obvious. True by definition, even. They've even found that leptin activates glutamate receptors, without making the connection. There are also plenty of glutamate receptors in the gut.
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  #66   ^
Old Thu, Mar-18-10, 09:45
tbagram's Avatar
tbagram tbagram is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 876
 
Plan: LC/HF/MP
Stats: 248/220/180 Female 67in
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Upstate New York
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Thanks for this info! I am printing it off and giving it to a friend who recently was put on Lipitor and told to stop eating eggs and fatty meats. She will soon get a computor and I'm going to give her this forum to start learning the truth.
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  #67   ^
Old Thu, Mar-18-10, 13:43
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black57
Here is an article on WebMD that promotes the healthiness of fat. http://blogs.webmd.com/heart-diseas...e-of-heart.html
On WebMD? <faints with shock>
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  #68   ^
Old Fri, Mar-19-10, 20:57
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
On WebMD? <faints with shock>


I know!!! That's what got my attention. I'm hangin' on to this.
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  #69   ^
Old Mon, Mar-22-10, 07:34
renegadiab renegadiab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 475
 
Plan: Schwarzbein/Bernstein
Stats: 355/240/200 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 74%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allymich
awesome!.. they are coming out of the dark ages


It's great progress to embrace eggs and question the saturated fat-CVD connection. Still calling for a "plant based diet" and whole grains, but enlightenment comes gradually.
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  #70   ^
Old Tue, Apr-27-10, 12:54
JohnGibson's Avatar
JohnGibson JohnGibson is offline
4 phases Use them
Posts: 6,652
 
Plan: Atkins - Induction
Stats: 250/250/180 Male 70 Inches
BF:ack/ack/ack
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
Default Carbs against Cardio: More Evidence that Refined Carbohydrates, not Fats, Threaten

Carbs against Cardio: More Evidence that Refined Carbohydrates, not Fats, Threaten the Heart

By Melinda Wenner Moyer

Eat less saturated fat: that has been the take-home message from the U.S. government for the past 30 years. But while Americans have dutifully reduced the percentage of daily calories from saturated fat since 1970, the obesity rate during that time has more than doubled, diabetes has tripled, and heart disease is still the country’s biggest killer. Now a spate of new research, including a meta-analysis of nearly two dozen studies, suggests a reason why: investigators may have picked the wrong culprit. Processed carbohydrates, which many Americans eat today in place of fat, may increase the risk of obesity, diabetes and heart disease more than fat does—a finding that has serious implications for new dietary guidelines expected this year.

In March the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition published a meta-analysis—which combines data from several studies—that compared the reported daily food intake of nearly 350,000 people against their risk of developing cardiovascular disease over a period of five to 23 years. The analysis, overseen by Ronald M. Krauss, director of atherosclerosis research at the Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, found no association between the amount of saturated fat consumed and the risk of heart disease.

The finding joins other conclusions of the past few years that run counter to the conventional wisdom that saturated fat is bad for the heart because it increases total cholesterol levels. That idea is “based in large measure on extrapolations, which are not supported by the data,” Krauss says.

One problem with the old logic is that “total cholesterol is not a great predictor of risk,” says Meir Stampfer, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. Although saturated fat boosts blood levels of “bad” LDL cholesterol, it also increases “good” HDL cholesterol. In 2008 Stampfer co-authored a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that followed 322 moderately obese individuals for two years as they adopted one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet based on American Heart Association guidelines; a Mediterranean, restricted-calorie diet rich in vegetables and low in red meat; and a low-carbohydrate, nonrestricted-calorie diet. Although the subjects on the low-carb diet ate the most saturated fat, they ended up with the healthiest ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol and lost twice as much weight as their low-fat-eating counterparts.

Stampfer’s findings do not merely suggest that saturated fats are not so bad; they indicate that carbohydrates could be worse. A 1997 study he co-authored in the Journal of the American Medical Association evaluated 65,000 women and found that the quintile of women who ate the most easily digestible and readily absorbed carbohydrates—that is, those with the highest glycemic index—were 47 percent more likely to acquire type 2 diabetes than those in the quintile with the lowest average glycemic-index score. (The amount of fat the women ate did not affect diabetes risk.) And a 2007 Dutch study of 15,000 women published in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology found that women who were overweight and in the quartile that consumed meals with the highest average glycemic load, a metric that incorporates portion size, were 79 percent more likely to develop coronary vascular disease than overweight women in the lowest quartile. These trends may be explained in part by the yo-yo effects that high glycemic-index carbohydrates have on blood glucose, which can stimulate fat production and inflammation, increase overall caloric intake and lower insulin sensitivity, says David Ludwig, director of the obesity program at Children’s Hospital Boston.

Will the more recent thinking on fats and carbs be reflected in the 2010 federal Dietary Guidelines for Americans, updated once every five years? It depends on the strength of the evidence, explains Robert C. Post, deputy director of the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion. Findings that “have less support are put on the list of things to do with regard to more research.” Right now, Post explains, the agency’s main message to Americans is to limit overall calorie intake, irrespective of the source. “We’re finding that messages to consumers need to be short and simple and to the point,” he says. Another issue facing regulatory agencies, notes Harvard’s Stampfer, is that “the sugared beverage industry is lobbying very hard and trying to cast doubt on all these studies.”

Nobody is advocating that people start gorging themselves on saturated fats, tempting as that may sound. Some monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, such as those found in fish and olive oil, can protect against heart disease. What is more, some high-fiber carbohydrates are unquestionably good for the body. But saturated fats may ultimately be neutral compared with processed carbs and sugars such as those found in cereals, breads, pasta and cookies.

“If you reduce saturated fat and replace it with high glycemic-index carbohydrates, you may not only not get benefits—you might actually produce harm,” Ludwig argues. The next time you eat a piece of buttered toast, he says, consider that “butter is actually the more healthful component.”
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  #71   ^
Old Tue, Apr-27-10, 13:20
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is offline
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 23,064
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/381/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 58%
Location: Ozarks USA
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Quote:
Will the more recent thinking on fats and carbs be reflected in the 2010 federal Dietary Guidelines for Americans, updated once every five years? It depends on the strength of the evidence, explains Robert C. Post, deputy director of the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion. Findings that “have less support are put on the list of things to do with regard to more research.”

translation: "Since we are carefully avoiding and ignoring a century of research that relates to this topic and the evidence against blaming fat, we can say with impunity, 'We have not seen enough evidence to cause us to change our recommendations significantly.'"

Quote:
Right now, Post explains, the agency’s main message to Americans is to limit overall calorie intake, irrespective of the source. “We’re finding that messages to consumers need to be short and simple and to the point,” he says.

translation: "We're telling them to drop calories, so since they are stupid and we need to be very simple, we'll continue telling them to limit their fat intake, since fat has more calories than carbs or protein."

Granted my suspicions are based on 'past behavior' of agencies under similar circumstance.

PJ
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  #72   ^
Old Tue, Apr-27-10, 13:22
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-against-cardio

Quote:
Nobody is advocating that people start gorging themselves on saturated fats, tempting as that may sound. Some monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, such as those found in fish and olive oil, can protect against heart disease. What is more, some high-fiber carbohydrates are unquestionably good for the body. But saturated fats may ultimately be neutral compared with processed carbs and sugars such as those found in cereals, breads, pasta and cookies.

It seems paradoxical that an article says both that "the evidence we used to believe in is wrong" and "that even though I just told you the evidence is wrong, we should not question the following assertion". Just you wait for next week's article that says the thing I told you that was unquestionably good is now maybe, perhaps, I think a little bit bad but don't hold it against me please. And this magazine is called Scientific American.
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  #73   ^
Old Tue, Apr-27-10, 13:27
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightnow
translation: "We're telling them to drop calories, so since they are stupid and we need to be very simple, we'll continue telling them to limit their fat intake, since fat has more calories than carbs or protein."

Granted my suspicions are based on 'past behavior' of agencies under similar circumstance.

PJ

Yeah, what's wrong with "cut the sugar"? That's simple enough for even the least smart of us to understand.
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  #74   ^
Old Tue, Apr-27-10, 13:33
JohnGibson's Avatar
JohnGibson JohnGibson is offline
4 phases Use them
Posts: 6,652
 
Plan: Atkins - Induction
Stats: 250/250/180 Male 70 Inches
BF:ack/ack/ack
Progress: 0%
Location: Illinois
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My best guess is that the FEDGOV will continue to ignore the scientific evidence and continue to promote the BS they have for years. Simply because the old mindset is too embeded.

John
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  #75   ^
Old Tue, Apr-27-10, 16:57
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
One problem with the old logic is that “total cholesterol is not a great predictor of risk,” says Meir Stampfer, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. Although saturated fat boosts blood levels of “bad” LDL cholesterol, it also increases “good” HDL cholesterol. In 2008 Stampfer co-authored a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that followed 322 moderately obese individuals for two years as they adopted one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet based on American Heart Association guidelines; a Mediterranean, restricted-calorie diet rich in vegetables and low in red meat; and a low-carbohydrate, nonrestricted-calorie diet. Although the subjects on the low-carb diet ate the most saturated fat, they ended up with the healthiest ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol and lost twice as much weight as their low-fat-eating counterparts.


I guess this is one of the studies showing that

Quote:
Some monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, such as those found in fish and olive oil, can protect against heart disease. What is more, some high-fiber carbohydrates are unquestionably good for the body.


this being the reason why

Quote:
Nobody is advocating that people start gorging themselves on saturated fats, tempting as that may sound.



I've tried gorging on saturated fat, drinking whipping cream past appetite isn't nearly as much fun as it sounds.
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