Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Fri, Dec-18-09, 00:11
Mirrorball's Avatar
Mirrorball Mirrorball is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 753
 
Plan: Intuitive eating
Stats: 200/125/- Female 1.62m (5'4")
BF:
Progress: 97%
Thumbs up Dr Loren Cordain on saturated fat: not a problem

Here is an excerpt from the latest edition of Dr Cordain's 'Paleo Diet Q & A'. It seems even he has stopped blaming saturated fat for cardiovascular disease.

Quote:
Saturated fatty acid intake and the risk of developing cardiovascular disease (CVD) is a topic with a lot of controversy. In recent years a wide body of research has suggested that increased consumption of certain saturated fatty acids (Lauric acid, myristic acid and palmitic acid) down-regulate LDL receptor and thereby increase LDL plasma levels, which has been associated to increased risk of CVD. On the other hand, stearic acid (a 18 carbon saturated fatty acid) has been shown to decrease LDL plasma levels. However, this view is too simplistic as there are several other factors contributing to CVD, such as smoking, exercise, trans-fatty acids, increased omega-6/omega-3 ratio, free-radicals, nutrient deficiency, homocysteine, alcohol intake and low-grade chronic inflammation among others.

Moreover, some studies have suggested that there’s not enough scientific data to support the view that increased total or LDL cholesterol is an independent risk factor for CVD, but rather oxidized LDL. Plaque production is mediated by oxidized LDL, not LDL. Oxidized LDL can produce shedding of the inner layer of the artery namely glycocalix. Oxidized LDL then infiltrates the intima of the artery. Oxidized LDL is eaten by macrophages, a process known as phagocytosis, causing macrophages to be transformed into foam cells which produce the fibrous cap.

Once the fibrous cap has been produced we need to break it down in order to produce an ischemic event. Lectins and low-grade chronic inflammation are involved in the activation of matrix metalloproteinases which break down the fibrous cap.

In summary, high total cholesterol or LDL levels do not increase CVD risk--rather oxidized LDL increases risk of CVD. To produce oxidized LDL requires the factors mentioned above. Hence, consumption of saturated fatty acids is not an issue if we control several other factors such as those mentioned.

Dr. Cordain wrote a book chapter and published a paper (with our team member Pedro Bastos) where he shows that saturated fat consumption in ancient hunter-gatherer populations were usually 10-15% above the recommended 10% of energy from saturated fats, yet they were non-atherogenic.

The bottom line is that we do not recommend cutting down saturated fatty acid intake, but decreasing high-glycemic load foods, vegetable oils, refined sugars, grains, legumes and dairy.

Last edited by Mirrorball : Fri, Dec-18-09 at 00:20.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Fri, Dec-18-09, 02:00
KMD's Avatar
KMD KMD is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 135
 
Plan: Low-Carb Mediterranean Di
Stats: 173/168/160 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona USA
Default

Dr. Cordain's current position on saturated fats makes sense, at least as stated above. [I spent 80 hours earlier this year reviewing the data for against saturated fats.]

It's interesting that he recommended "decreasing...grains, legumes..." I thought most paleos were deadset against all intake of grains and legumes, probably dairy, too. But I've never read Dr. Cordain's book.

This is important new information, MirrorBall. Thanks for sharing.

-Steve
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Fri, Dec-18-09, 11:07
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I think they write this stuff with the average person in mind, who would probably be put off by being told to completely omit all their favorite foods. So they make their advice more gentle... let the user figure out, hey if I feel better doing X, then perhaps I'd feel even better doing X+1.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, Dec-18-09, 11:34
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

That's great to hear. Last time Cordain gave a recommendation for saturated fat intake I think it was 10-15% total - 20-25% sounds much more reasonable!
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sun, Dec-20-09, 06:06
coachjeff's Avatar
coachjeff coachjeff is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 635
 
Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 211/212/210 Male 72
BF:
Progress: -100%
Location: Shreveport, LA
Default

A few weeks ago, on the PaNu forum, I started a thread on Cordain's hostility toward Sat fats. So I was very surprised to see him "change his mind" on this issue a mere few days after I posted that.

In that thread on PaNu Dr. Harris himself replied...

Quote:
"Finally, the idea that the preferred storage form of energy in mammals may constitute up to 10% of its flesh and not only be dismissed as a preferred energy source for humans (which I believe all credible evidence points to) but is actually toxic to humans who eat it, is implausible on it's face.

Unfortunately Cordain has himself backed into a corner. He wrote a popular book that vilifies saturated fat because he believed the diet heart hypothesis and interpreted everything through that lens. Now he can at best back a away from that stance only a little bit at a time.

I would like to hear him say that Saturated fat is one of the most health promoting things you can eat and superior to all other forms of fat and especially linoleic acid, but I am not holding my breath.

Instead he talks about keeping your LDL low (wouldn't want those particles too get to big and fluffy!) and how it is "established" that saturated fat is harmful.

Nonsense."
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Thu, Dec-24-09, 12:22
kindke's Avatar
kindke kindke is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 451
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 278/217/185 Male 5 feet 11 inches
BF:
Progress: 66%
Default

Hopefully this guy will give up his attack on dairy soon enough aswell.

Its a really healthy food if the animals and fed right.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Thu, Dec-24-09, 12:31
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
A few weeks ago, on the PaNu forum, I started a thread on Cordain's hostility toward Sat fats. So I was very surprised to see him "change his mind" on this issue a mere few days after I posted that.

Oh congratulations on changing his mind! Actually, a couple years ago Dr. Eades posted that Cordain was changing his mind on saturated fats.

July, 2006
Quote:
is Dr. Cordain softening on his anti-sat. fat position? I saw something somewhere that suggested he might be…
btw, I love Tahoe, but I’ve only been there skiing in the winter. Squaw rocks!

Hi mrfreddy–

He is indeed softening. He ain’t there all the way yet, but he’s on his way.

I agree; Squaw rocks! Tahoe is a great summer place, too. Come give it a try.

Best–

MRE
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Thu, Dec-24-09, 12:36
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindke
Hopefully this guy will give up his attack on dairy soon enough aswell.

Its a really healthy food if the animals and fed right.

Don't hold your breath. Dairy is a new food to humans and the man is all about eating foods we evolved to eat. He has written a TON of stuff about the problems with dairy.

I agree though, if the animals are fed right dairy is a healthy product... for a calf.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Thu, Dec-24-09, 13:00
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

I've had the opportunity to try dairy "done right" and it was not a food for me.

Cordain is trying to work out how much saturated fat to eat - he can't say not to eat it at all because it's clear people have always had it. Dairy isn't like that - unless someone can show that adult humans have been drinking the milk of another animal for a hundred thousand years, it's not going to become Paleo.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-10, 21:01
Mirrorball's Avatar
Mirrorball Mirrorball is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 753
 
Plan: Intuitive eating
Stats: 200/125/- Female 1.62m (5'4")
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Some cautious words on coconut oil:
Quote:
Q: Is there a good reason to avoid using coconut oil?
A: This is not a clear cut issue as it once was. Coconut oil contains high concentrations of a saturated fatty acid called lauric acid (12:0) as well as other medium chain fatty acids (8:0, 10:0) which may have therapeutic effects. Coconut oil also contains other saturated fatty acids which elevate blood cholesterol. However, elevations in blood cholesterol without chronic low level inflammation may not necessarily increase the risk for CHD. My feeling is that coconut oil in the backdrop of a modern day Paleo Diet probably has few negative health implications.
Loren Cordain, Ph.D., Professor
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-10, 21:24
klowcarb's Avatar
klowcarb klowcarb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,136
 
Plan: Zero Carb / Warrior Diet
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5' 4"
BF:
Progress:
Location: Boston, MA
Default

It's about time. Too bad he has everyone associating "paleo" with lean meats, nuts, fruits and vegetables.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Tue, Jan-05-10, 21:34
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by klowcarb
Too bad he has everyone associating "paleo" with lean meats, nuts, fruits and vegetables.

There is, of course, more to paleo than what you read on the Weston A. Price Foundation website or Stefansson. Anyone who knows more than Cordain does about paleolithic foodstuff may speak against him, I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-10, 09:11
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

I guess we'd better shut down the Paleo forum, then.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Wed, Jan-06-10, 12:59
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
I guess we'd better shut down the Paleo forum, then.

Heh. Rename?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 17:11.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.