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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Nov-25-09, 23:47
EatRealFoo EatRealFoo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 147
 
Plan: mine
Stats: -/-/- Male 178
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default Sugar Sensitive and Radiant Recovery

I found about Radiant Recovery a site that deals with healing sugar addiction run by Kathleen Desmaisons. I thought it could be interested because a problem for many LCers is being addicted to sugar or starches. I thought I could learn something.

But I found there's a very fanatical and condescending tone to it and it sounds like a cult where no kind of individual thinking is allowed. You must accept the whole package and submit to every idea and are not even allowed to explain what doesn't work for you. It's one size fits all and your individuals needs don't matter. A lot of people come in the forum and then stop posting because Desmaisons just don't approve ther posts anymore unless they state how great the plan is and how well they fell. Even post that are "too negative" (like a persons feeling sick and needing support) are removed for the "well being" of the community.

I have a bitter aftertaste in my mouth after witnessing that and I wonder if other had the same experience and what they think about the program and the ideology behind it?
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 17:24
cincin2009 cincin2009 is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: barry groves
Stats: 160/105/100 Female 4 feet and 11 inches
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: rural nsw australia
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I read her book and found it a little condescending. However the breakfast advice did stop the 4pm beer binge.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Dec-08-09, 20:17
lizzyLC's Avatar
lizzyLC lizzyLC is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,143
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 154/143/130 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: PNW
Default

I read the book many years ago. Potatoes don't necessarily agree with me. Maybe it's the polysaccharides. Plus, I just don't like to eat before bed......well, maybe a 1/2 of a banana on occasion. I visited her boards too and came up with the same conclusion. It sounds like you're in touch with your gut instinct. Do what is right for you.
Best wishes.

Last edited by lizzyLC : Tue, Dec-08-09 at 20:18. Reason: made a change
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Feb-13-10, 03:08
Bloom Bloom is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,181
 
Plan: Dukan
Stats: 229/185/154 Female 168cm
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: New Zealand
Default

I read the book many yrs ago as well and also got her audio tapes which i found to be excellent. I joined a yahoo group as didnt really like the format or tone of her actual site. All was well until I slipped up a bit had McD's and posted for support. I got a very firm telling off from Kathleen herself which didnt help at all. Straight away myself and two others left the group and did not go back.
I didnt find I was really losing much weight anyway and that doesnt seem to be focus.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Nov-09-10, 20:26
Sunspot Sunspot is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 116/110/110 Female 5"1'
BF:
Progress:
Red face Radiant Recovery experience

I want to share my experience with the Radiant Recovery, which I began using after working with Atkins and South Beach. My main comment is that I found the book to be very helpful in my situation, and I am following the steps. I am on Step 6.

That said, like others who have posted here, I have found the tone on the RR forum to be condescending and highly intolerant of individual experience that doesn't agree with RR 100%. Ms. DesMaissons posts rules about keeping tone and language appropriate, yet she and her moderators routinely upbraid people who disagree, or struggle to follow the steps perfectly. God forbid you mention the desire to lose weight on the forum--you're quickly chastised and/or branded either an exercise addict or someone with an eating disorder. (I freely admit to sugar addiction!)

Last summer, a woman posted on the fitness forum about how hard it is to lose weight despite working out hard and eating well, given her age (48). When I joined in with a relieved, "You, too?" (I'm also 48 and athletic) and engaged in a discussion about peri-menopause, we were both chastised, accused of being "exercise addicts", and told our posts were "on moderation." (When I told several friends about the "exercise addict" accusation, they cracked up. I never hesitate to take rest days!) The situation even became more bizarre and since then, I rarely visit the website.

As I said, I do follow the RR program--it works for me. At the same time, I find the thinking on the listserv to be rigid, harsh and uncompromising. So, proceed with caution. Use the books, pass on the listserv--or, just read posts.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Nov-28-10, 20:35
Doggygirl2's Avatar
Doggygirl2 Doggygirl2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 123
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 204/198/158 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Joliet, IL
Default

Thanks for posting this information - both positive and negative. I'm just now realizing the severity of my issues with addiction and am about to start reading Kathleen's books. I'm glad I read the caution about the forum.

Thanks!
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Nov-29-10, 11:42
Serena11's Avatar
Serena11 Serena11 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 162
 
Plan: whole foods, less carbs
Stats: 158.5/145.5/125 Female 62 in
BF:2 high
Progress: 39%
Location: CA
Default one more voice

Hi everyone,

I'm coming into this discussion late, but wanted to add my personal experience and thoughts on RR.

About 6 years ago, I was in search of a way to find healing for what I was fully beginning to see as a sugar addiction. Through a search I found Kathleen's site and books. She studied addiction and comes from an alcoholic background (not herself, but family members). In graduate school she did her thesis on addiction and recovery. What she discovered resulted in her "Potatoes Not Prozac" and "Sugar Addicts Recovery Book."

I was totally thrilled when I found Kathleen's take on sugar addiction and followed her 7 step program for a few months. I never felt so good in my life, but I was not treating myself seriously and wanted to drink wine at an upcoming Christmas party, I left the program at that point and actually regret it. However, my regret is over the lack of discipline in my own life to apply what I KNEW worked for me and was indeed healthy. I found what I was looking for and continued in old habits eventually. I do not regret separating myself from an unhealthy dependency-driven (IMHO) program.

What I am thankful for to this day is what I learned about my own addiction to sugar and it's connection to starches. My discovery led to the understanding that white flour was my very worst enemy, nothing else could have convinced me of that fact before reading Kathleen's books.

I do feel there is an element of control with Kathleen that is not healthy (for myself anyway). I posted on her forum when I became aware of the "cultish" feeling to things, she responded that I could be assured there was no such thing going on there, (of course). I used the term "idol" in my post. She did not boot me out, but that was a long time ago and her rules were less rigid, from what I understand.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Nov-29-10, 11:59
MiniMim's Avatar
MiniMim MiniMim is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 709
 
Plan: Modified Atkins
Stats: 218/175.4/113 Female 62 in
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Northern Illinois
Default

I will be forever grateful for Kathleen's books which I found 4 or 5 years ago I think it was. I learned so much through them that has been of utmost help to me in understanding about how my body responds to sugar, and how that all contributed to depression. And I appreciated her 7 step approach that allowed me to incorporate new habits into my life that have stuck with me ever since.

I wasn't succesful maintaining a sugar free way of life at that time, and I think a big part of that was that I was still incoporating whole grains, brown rice and legumes in my diet as per Kathleen's advice. I know now that those things continued to trigger cravings for me that a low carb way of eating does not. As well, I also found the message board there oppressive and didn't participate often or for very long.

But, the amount of education I received through her books far outweigh any negatives in my mind.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Nov-29-10, 12:19
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
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I am like Serena and Mims, my thinking has been changed forever since reading the books, and I am so much healther it's unbelievable. I also no longer see addiction as this big bad scary disease or a character failing but actually an adaptive response of some body types to some fractionated and industrialized foods - bad news!

For me as well, the RR emphasis on "browns," or whole grains (the "prudent diet") and lower fat for weight loss, I didn't like the results for me. A higher fat lower carb approach is not welcome, or at least when I was there, because 100% of the discussion is on the basic program.

However I do think the teaching on biochemistry and addiction is spot on. I think it's a great program for saving people from the brink of disastrous addiction. For everyone to automatically continue on to truly vibrant health, that might be a different story. Some people do, though.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Dec-01-10, 13:57
Doggygirl2's Avatar
Doggygirl2 Doggygirl2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 123
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 204/198/158 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Joliet, IL
Default

I continue to appreciate any and all comments. I too am uncertain about the "browns" and how that will work for me long term. But for the moment, working to eliminate the "whites" is progress!!!! I was reading in "Your Last Diet" last night and was totally at the way she *knows* how us life long dieters think. (wanting to skip ahead, do everything right now, have results immediately, etc.)

So.... I figure it can't hurt to work on her program as prescribed for a while and see how it goes. But being the life long dieter that I am, I'm gong to work on Steps one and two at the same time.

I think journaling to look for reactions to foods (moods, hunger levels, etc.) will be a good thing. I've never made a point to write that sort of stuff down. I'm use to tracking what I eat but only monitoring results on that number oriented thingy in my bathroom.

DG
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Dec-01-10, 17:04
Sunspot Sunspot is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 116/110/110 Female 5"1'
BF:
Progress:
Default Radiant Recovery, continued

I want to thank everybody for continuing this discussion. I have profound gratitude for the RR program, but have been deeply saddened by the inability to dialogue on that site about anything that disagrees with Kathleen's perspective. We are not all the same, even in our sugar sensitivities and reactions to food--and each person can find tremendous healing in using multiple programs. That last sentence is absolutely heresy on the RR site: it is her way, or get off the site.

What I found the most disturbing is that Kathleen wrote me a series of negative e-mails in an effort to undermine my confidence in my own recovery when I did not agree to her version of things; she even suggested that I could not rely on my food journal to give me accurate feedback. (Though using a journal and learning how to interpret it is foundational to the program; I continue to use and trust my journal to this day). I had to ask her twice to stop sending me e-mails. Her need to control me and her resulting anger when I expressed confidence in my program was simply stunning.

If how she treats people who disagree with her is "radiance" I'll pass. I am finding healing in using the steps, my journal, and adapting the program to my body's needs without need for Kathleen's approval.

Ok, I think I can begin to let this go...

Thanks, Sunspot
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Dec-01-10, 17:27
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Yes that style of journaling was an eye-opener for me. I never had connected what I ate, with my energy afterward, both physical and emotional. I had come up from the old WW style of just writing down what you ate! as if that was all that mattered.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-10, 07:17
Doggygirl2's Avatar
Doggygirl2 Doggygirl2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 123
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 204/198/158 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Joliet, IL
Default

Seejay and Sunspot, I would be very interested in some examples of things you discovered about connections between food / physical / emotional from journaling. Just examples which will give me ideas of the types of things to look for, if you have a bit of time and dont' mind sharing some of that.

I can see that I do NOT need the stress of the RR web site!!! That would just frustrate me. I plan to keep reading the books and working on the steps, and it's good to know that some of you here have personal experience too. THANKS!!!

DG
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-10, 10:58
Serena11's Avatar
Serena11 Serena11 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 162
 
Plan: whole foods, less carbs
Stats: 158.5/145.5/125 Female 62 in
BF:2 high
Progress: 39%
Location: CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggygirl2
Seejay and Sunspot, I would be very interested in some examples of things you discovered about connections between food / physical / emotional from journaling. Just examples which will give me ideas of the types of things to look for, if you have a bit of time and dont' mind sharing some of that.

I can see that I do NOT need the stress of the RR web site!!! That would just frustrate me. I plan to keep reading the books and working on the steps, and it's good to know that some of you here have personal experience too. THANKS!!!

DG


Hi there,
I thought I'd answer your post as I have an example of a specific connection discovery from journalling.

I discovered that the sweetener 'Stevia' is a hunger trigger food for me. I noticed after having my regular protein shake I would feel ravenous within a short time and traced it back to the sweetener in the protein mix. I steer clear of the Stevia now and am so glad it was pinpointed.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Dec-02-10, 11:28
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,025
 
Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggygirl2
Seejay and Sunspot, I would be very interested in some examples of things you discovered about connections between food / physical / emotional from journaling. Just examples which will give me ideas of the types of things to look for, if you have a bit of time and dont' mind sharing some of that.
I musta had hundreds of aha moments. My most productive was looking over the past 3-5 days and just see what I saw without any preconceptions, and that's when patterns started to show.

What came up for me during steps 1 and 2 -

- slight nausea 1.5 hours after a meal was a blood sugar drop, caused by a bad mix of protein/carb/fat for the previous meal. Could be too much protein or too much carb or not enough everything or not enough fat or, or, or... I don't have those any more by the way - fat adapting fixed it plus the JK amounts of food.

- I didn't know how I felt because I honestly never paid attention! I learned to do a top-to-toe survey of my physical and emotional state at meals and in between meals, just to have a record. My early journal was filled with things like "headache, backache, ravenous, stuffed, antsy, sad, hyper" and now it is "feel great as usual".

- If I didn't have enough food 2 days in a row, I'd binge on the third. This was such an exciting pattern for me to see because it told me that binges were NOT mysterious and out of the blue, but a predictable thing that would happen when my activity oustripped my nutrition.

- Surprising to me, I erred more often in not getting enough food, as opposed to eating too much. I wouldn't stop doing fun things to eat. I always thought I was a big eater - not true, just more like a lion, starve/binge.
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