I am a great believer in "self-experimentation" - after all, that's what the doctors do with us if they get half a chance (my DH, who worked in a hospital for two years as a callow youth, said that was all the doctors ever did with their patients, just tested this and that to see what worked!!!).

If you experiment carefully - i.e. not taking 20 times the recommended dose of some supplement or whatever - , I am sure you can get some results that mean something to you: after all, you are a unique individual and need to find out what works for you, and not for some mythical Ms. Average who doesn't exist.

I would experiment with lowering your carbs - although my advice would be to do this slowly in 10g increments, not shoot down to 20g all at once (which is what Lutz, of "Life Without Bread" fame recommends, as does Barry Groves) - and monitor your blood pressure regularly whilst doing so. And then, if that doesn't seem to have any effect after a few weeks, then try lowering your salt intake.

At the end of the day, what counts is what works for YOU. The rest of the world is not relevant!!!

But, just by the by, my BP, which wasn't that high in the first place, went down from 140/80 to between 110-130/70-60, which I believe is pretty OK after LCing. I have been LCing (70-100g of carbs/day, à la Groves/Schwarzbein) since May 2007 and my BP numbers are now stable.

And I would definitely try chelated magnesium in your shoes, and possibly potassium. These are both needed to regulate your blood pressure. In fact, that is the very first thing I would try, and perhaps make changes in gradualy teps so that you can actually work out which change precisely made the difference, or didn't make the difference.

The problem with making too many changes concurrently would be that you wouldn't then be able to work out what exactly brought about improved BP readings, if that were indeed to happen.

amanda

Nancy - I did the Atkins induction thing in the past and the results was NOT pretty. But you are right, it would be a simpler way to go about it.

Hutchinson - thank you for the double post, I answered you on the other thread.

Amanda - I think you are right as well, I am reading everyone's posts and replies and studies they are posting and shaking my head at the blatant, outright refusal of the medical communtiy to acknowlege all that is out there. It is such a damn shame that what can heal people, I mean really heal them of some illness are kept quiet from the very people that take that oath to heal. Shame on them!!

edit to add because I hit the send button too early: I am concerned about taking any potassium since the pills I am now on effects potassium and that can be dangerous.

I understand completely. Never ever go off a medication cold turkey unless you get approval from your doc. You might get nasty side-effects. That said, the side-effects of the diuretics used to "treat" so-called 'high' blood pressure are also pretty nasty, too. Classic case of the proverbial rock and hard place it would seem...

Good luck, whatever you do!

amanda

Glenda,

Forgive me for being a bit indelicate here. Given your age (over 50 if I remember correctly) -- and maybe the age of the OP as well -- Ted was correct: the answer may be as simple as supplementing with Co-Enzyme 10, or Q-10.

It is one of the most crucial enzymes in our bodies, is the main factor (though not the only factor) in regulating BP -- and most shockingly -- is the one enzyme we begin to lose the ability to synthesize through food as we age.

By age 65, most of us are down almost 90%! And regardless of age, taking a statin will reduce Q-10 by 40%!

I was able to get off all BP meds and get down to 106/60 by doing nothing but taking 200 mg of ubiquinOL (not ubiquinONE) a day. The enzyme takes a long time -- months, not weeks -- to build up in the blood, so you won't notice a thing for several weeks, and then just a tiny bit. It took a full three months for my BP to fall to 85/55 -- with meds -- at which point my doctor helped wean me off the meds entirely. That's when I stabilized at my current point.

I was taking 4 times that amount of ubiquinONE (the stuff called Q-10 you find on your pharmacy shelves), which you *still* must synthesize, until I found out about the newest type: ubiquinol, which is the actual enzyme itself, and does not require your body to convert it. It goes straight into the bloodstream.

Considering that I started at 195/110 and that heavy meds brought me down only to 130/80 -- I consider being at 106/60 with no meds at all a miracle. A miracle called Ubiquinol.

It's not cheap, but the cheapest place I've found it (about half the price that iHerb wants) is http://www.swansonsvitamins.com

If you've never tried this, you might want to give it a shot. No meds are going to help if you're missing a crucial component of cardiovascular care.

Lisa

Lisa, thanks for that, and thanks for your age-related sensitivity! After we hit the 70's we seem to revert to young childhood and become proud of our age again -- like asking a toddler how old he/she is -- "I'm 4 -3/4 years old (probably holding up 5 fingers)!!!!" Having said that, I'll be 73 in January, and planning many more!!

Anyway, as well as calcium/magnesium/D3; vit E; potassium; a broad spectrum multi/mineral, I've been taking CoQ10 for a few years now, but not at that high a dose -- I'll pump it up for a while and see if that helps. I've also recently bumped my vit.D3 to 5500 IU per day, so that may help also -- I may never know WHICH specifically helped (if they do) but, if the combo works, I don't really care which helped more!

Does it make a difference when in the day one takes their ubiquinONE? Is it better spread out over the day or should one take it in one dose either morning or evening? Sorry, I didn't follow the link - been working at a collectibles show all day, and I'm feeling lazy (or at least dozy)!!!

Glenda,

If you're going to continue to take ubiquinONE, you will need at least 800 mg a day. That's because you're substituting one synthesize problem for another. At age 70, you are getting almost zero ubiquinol from your food because your body can no longer convert the food into the enzyme. UbiquinONE also needs to be converted to ubiquinol (the actual enzyme) -- which, as we've just established, it's unable to do very well. So at 800 mg a day you *may* get as much as the 200 ubiquinol you need. Or you may not.

Or, you can just order ubiquinol and not force your body to try and convert it; it will go straight to your bloodstream.

If you're worried about any effect from large doses (of which 800mg ubiquinone is NOT) -- don't be. There's a lot of medical literature out there that shows even mega-doses are not toxic or any other problem at all.

In fact, that's how the use of ubiquinol for successfully treating BP was accidentally discovered: as a side effect of treating people at the end stages of congestive heart failure. These folks were on the heart transplant list with little hope of getting a new heart, and had little to lose. They were given massive doses of ubiquinone (ubiquinol hadn't been perfected yet) over a long period of time -- and it worked! It actually decreased the disease by increasing the heart 'stroke' rate (if it's too weak the extremities do not get blood or oxygen) that was the problem. The researchers doing the study noted a puzzling side effect: in every patient, BP was dramatically lowered. Given what we now know about the effect of the enzyme on the cardiovascular system, and how crucial it is for cardio health, that shouldn't have been as much of a surprise, but we have come a long way about the role enzymes play since then.

So, either 200 mg of ubiquinol, or 800 mg of ubiquinone should lower your BP enough over the course of 3 months to get your off your BP meds forever.

As to when to take it, there doesn't seem to be any indication one way or the other. If I order the 200mg cap, I take it in the morning with my other supplements. If I order the 100mg caps, I take one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

Lisa

Thanks again Lisa. I've been searching a bit locally to see if I can find someone who carries ubiquinol - so many US suppliers charge really punitive rates to ship outside of the lower 48! I might just ask my doctor if he would prescribe it - then health insurance would at least partially cover the cost!

Glenda,

If you can find a local pharmacy -- which I doubt since you can't even find ubiquinol in pharmacies here -- great.

However, if not, I doubt you can get a prescription since it's not a drug but a supplement.

I went looking for an online site that's either in Canada or ships to Canada for free, and the Ubiquinol prices were *double* that of Swanson's. The best place I found was here: http://www.healthier-you.com/4900-Ubiquinol-100.asp but that's not saying much since 30 caps of 100 mg is about $35 -- and you'll be using two bottles a month of that low strength.

However, it turns out that Swanson Vitamins ships to Canada for only their usual flat rate of $4.99 plus *actual* freight costs. The 200 mg bottles (only $19!!!) are teeny tiny. You can hold two bottles in the palm of your hand.

They only let you buy 3 bottles at a time (as you've already surmised, they're hard to come by since Kanaka Labs are in Japan), but for $60 for a 3-month supply (plus probably no more than $15 shipping), that would equal the cost of only one month at any of the online Canadian drugstores. Seems like a good deal to me.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com -- search for Ubiquinol and get the 200mg bottles.

Lisa

How much coQ10 would you recommend for a 50 yr old guy with BP around 170/100? He is already on 3 BP meds. I already have the CoQ10 so I would like to try that before buying something

does mag help at all?

He's on 3 BP meds and his numbers are still that high? Yikes! He'd need either 300 mg a day of UbiquinOL, or about 1000 mg a day of the stuff you have. And please remember -- it will take about 3 months for the ubiquinOL to work. Probably longer for your CoQ10.

Lisa

Absolutely!!! Use a chelated form as these are much better absorbed and tolerated by the bowel.

amanda

thanks. how much mag would you suggest? I wish the coQ10 did not take so long to work. He is not into trying to learn and help himself- just wants to take any drugs the doc gives him. And then get more when it does not immediately drop. He might humor me by trying this stuff, but if it takes that long to work, he will probably think it is not doing anything.

I understand the difficulty, but under the circumstances, disagree with Amanda. There's not enough magnesium in the world to lower this guy's BP by more than a point or two -- so he'll just say it doesn't work. If he's not willing to learn and change, he's not willing to get to the cause of his high BP, and he's condemned himself to forever treating the symptoms.

My BP was 195/110. Got it down to to 130/80 with meds. Diagnosed the cause -- ubiquinol deficiency. Treated it with Ubiquinol. Now, my BP is 106/60 with NO meds. Didn't happen overnight. Nothing good ever does.

Lisa

how did they diagnose ubiquinol deficiency?

May have found the cause of his problem- they did a CT scan on his lungs and happened to see a growth on his adrenal gland. He goes next week to talk to the doc