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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 14:58
Squarecube's Avatar
Squarecube Squarecube is offline
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 186.5/163.0/160 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 89%
Default NY Times: Regimens: A Supplement Didn’t Help Heart Patients

GGGGGrrrrrr. At first I was elated that the Times mentioned that Heart Disease is related to low levels of Omega 3's, yipppee! But then when I continued reading this little blurb I became depressed. These negative studies, it's almost like it's on purpose! There they are, these scientists and these reporters, playing around omega 3's, corn Oil, and heart disease, but they are concerned that upping Omega 3's didn't fix depression - so they can't recommend taking it. It's kinda like watching a young Louis Pasteur playing around with vats of broth, bacteria, and flame and watching him get upset that he didn't find a new way to curl hair.


Quote:
November 3, 2009
Vital Signs
Regimens: A Supplement Didn’t Help Heart Patients
By RONI CARYN RABIN

Patients with heart disease are at greater risk of dying if they are depressed. And both depression and heart disease are characterized, among other things, by low levels of omega-3 fatty acids.

So scientists wondered whether heart patients with depression might benefit from a dose of omega-3s in their antidepressant medicine. In a clinical trial, two groups of heart patients taking the antidepressant sertraline (Zoloft) were randomly assigned to receive a supplement of either omega-3s or a corn oil placebo.

The results were “very disappointing,” said Robert M. Carney, a psychiatry professor at the Washington University School of Medicine and the lead author of a study on the trial, which appeared Oct. 21 in The Journal of the American Medical Association.

Dr. Carney said there was “absolutely no difference” in remission of depression among the 59 patients who took omega-3s along with the drug for 10 weeks and the 56 given the placebo.

Studies evaluating the effects of omega-3s on depression have had mixed results, he said, adding, “The evidence isn’t strong enough to make any recommendations in my opinion, for people with or without heart disease.”
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 15:01
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 27,124
 
Plan: Hedonic Paleo
Stats: 209.5/170.4/165 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

How much did they take? Dr. Davis has his patients taking a pretty big dose and he said it reduces triglycerdies.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 15:22
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,245
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
Default

Maybe Zoloft blocks some of the benefits of omega-3s.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 15:26
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 27,124
 
Plan: Hedonic Paleo
Stats: 209.5/170.4/165 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

On the other hand, testing Omega-3/Omega-6 and transfats in the blood is a way, way better indicator of future heart disease than cholesterol testing.

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...her-better.html
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 15:30
Altari Altari is offline
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Posts: 113
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 255/205/160 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Default

Quote:
Dr. Carney said there was “absolutely no difference” in remission of depression among the 59 patients who took omega-3s along with the drug for 10 weeks and the 56 given the placebo.

I hope they do a follow-up. This leaves us with more questions than answers.
- Did they adjust dietary levels of Omega-6s to allow the Omega-3s to be absorbed?
- Did the supplements improve their cardiac conditions in any way?
- Did they explore the possibility that the compounds in sertraline prevent proper absorption of Omega-3s?
- Why was ARA not included in the Omega-3 supplements?
- Could the results be different if physical activity and/or light therapy was included?

Nancy, here's an excerpt from the abstract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Journal of AMA
Interventions After a 2-week run-in period, all patients were given 50 mg/d of sertraline and randomized in double-blind fashion to receive 2 g/d of omega-3 acid ethyl esters (930 mg of eicosapentaenoic acid [EPA] and 750 mg of docosahexaenoic acid [DHA]) (n=62) or to corn oil placebo capsules (n=60) for 10 weeks.

Conclusions Treatment of patients with CHD and major depression with sertraline and omega-3 fatty acids did not result in superior depression outcomes at 10 weeks, compared with sertraline and placebo. Whether higher doses of omega-3 or sertraline, a different ratio of EPA to DHA, longer treatment, or omega-3 monotherapy can improve depression in patients with CHD remains to be determined.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 15:30
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 1,509
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default


2 g/d of omega-3 acid ethyl esters (930 mg of eicosapentaenoic acid [EPA] and 750 mg of docosahexaenoic acid [DHA])
= 1680g omega 3 about 5 or 6 daily of the omega 3 you bought.

I can't get the full text so I can't see if these people were in hospital or not but I guess these were at home.
I guess also they were eating their "normal" SAD diet.
As we know
High Omega-6 Diet Lowers Omega-3 Status, but Low Omega-6 Diet Preserves
it is a fact that higher omega 6 intake displaces omega 3 although a higher intake of omega 3 does in the short term help improve plasma and stroke, surgery, accident, survival a significant reduction in omega 6 enhances that action.
IDEALLY our omega 3 ~ omega 6 ratio would be 1~1 at worst it should be no more than 1~4
current UK average is 1~10
current USA average 1~20

So you can see why Dr Davis is using much higher amounts of omega 3 to try to make a significant difference to the ratio.
Stephan on the other hand thinks the main emphasis should be on REDUCING THE OMEGA 6 side of the see saw

I don't know if any of you have listened to the talks at the omega 3 conference here
http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=8107
Really set up for the military but still interesting.
The Hibbeln session was particularly interesting in regards to depression.
Omega Fatty Acids and Aggression, Suicide and Psychiatric Distress
CAPT Joseph R. Hibbeln, M.D.
At some point in the day someone asked how long it takes to change brain omega 3 DHA status and the answer was 2.5yrs to change 50%.

So given a background where omega 3 is added in a situation where it's being overwhelmed (neutralised, displaced) by omega 6, too little is being used and only 10 weeks was allowed, is anyone surprised by the result.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-09, 16:22
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
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Posts: 797
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 250.4/205.4/150.4 Female 5'6"
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Progress: 45%
Default

I read a book called The Queen of Fats a year or so ago.

My memory may be somewhat faulty, but I thought it said something about it taking a minimum of six months after balancing the omega-3's and omega-6's in your diet to change out the fats stored in the body.
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