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  #31   ^
Old Wed, Oct-21-09, 03:25
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
Oh Since the 4000 D3 is in my Vitamin is it ok to get 2000 and that be safe and effective Plus sun?
In post 7 you say
Quote:
I have been taking 400 D3,

I suspect that like I did in my previous you added an extra 0 but in fact you are actually taking just 400iu in a multivitamin/mineral.
Even so the SAFE UPPER LIMIT is 10,000iu/daily and this leaves such a huge margin of safety that even people getting regular sun exposure will be absolutely safe.

Therefore you can safely increase the amount you are taking.
With the conditions you have it would be advisable to have a higher vitamin D status than 55ng/ml.
You have a lot of pro inflammatory stuff going on so making sure you have more than ample anti inflammatory available is simply common sense. So the sooner you increase your vitamin D3 to 5000iu/daily the better and only reduce the amount next summer if your next 25(OH)D test is over 80ng, if you can get plenty of sun then do so to try to stay in the 60~70 range.


Quote:
Also I take one Fish oil a day its, Omega 3 Fish Oil, 300 Active EPA/DHA, should I continue this or add more of it?


Although you may find this takes a little getting into this calculator enables you to see how much you need to adjust your omega 3<>omega 6 ratio to bring it down to a safer level. Most USA diets leave people with about 10times more omega 6 than is safe or reasonable.
FREE! Software to Choose Foods

But it takes months to change tissue omega 6 levels by eliminating industrial vegetable oils such as corn, soybean, safflower and sunflower oil, and everything that contains them from your diet. While you work on reducing the cause of excess inflammation you can safely take a lot more omega 3 than you do now. Your plasma levels of omega 3 change within hours and 5 days after taking effective amounts of omega 3 your chance of having better outcomes from surgery, stroke, accident is significantly improved. sessions listen to this session Omega-3 Fatty Acids in Surgical, Respiratory and Intensive Care Issues Robert G. Martindale

Now Foods, Ultra Omega-3, 500 EPA/250 DHA, 180 SoftgelsThese are what I use. I take 3 daily total 2.25g omega 3 daily. If you find you get fishy burps (these are enteric coated so this shouldn't be a problem) you could also put them in the freezer and take them frozen this also ensures they get past the burp point before they dissolve.


Quote:
Will increasing my D level help any of these? I know there mostly autoimmune, so just wondering?
Yes that is why I'm moving the goal posts higher as with that list of conditions your body will use Vitamin D3 faster than most people.

Although Nancy is right to say omega 3 doesn't raise 25(OH)D it's possible some of the fish oil used to make fish oil may contain some vitamin d as does Cod Liver Oil and so it's possible that there are low amounts of vitamin D in some fish oils. but too low to be counted or declared as present. But omega 3 like vitamin D3 and magnesium, has anti inflammatory actions and improving your natural anti inflammatory status will help improve the range of conditions you have at the moment.

Dr Art Ayers has a good blog on Cooling Inflammation he gets a bit technical at times but if you stick with it you gradually begin to understand what he's talking about. Start with the diet page, then explore his other blogs.

Quote:
Thank you from the botton of my heart for all the great info
I'm pleased to be able to help.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Wed, Oct-21-09 at 03:39.
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  #32   ^
Old Thu, Oct-22-09, 10:08
Hismouse's Avatar
Hismouse Hismouse is offline
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Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
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I have a Big Question, my Dr. just emailed me and told me to take 50,000 units once a week? Is there two many zero's in there, and would it be better to break that down to daily?
She also told me to take 400mg of Magnesium. Which of the magnesium is best for me. Help, please this shocked me.
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  #33   ^
Old Thu, Oct-22-09, 11:19
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
I have a Big Question, my Dr. just emailed me and told me to take 50,000 units once a week?
These Biotech 50,000iu are fine DON'T have a prescription they are bound to be DRISDOL or other form of ERGOCALCIFEROL.
I have just had a rant about that here if you want to understand why D2 is a waste of time and money and may do more harm than good.


Quote:
Is there two many zero's in there,
NO ABSOLUTELY NOT
50,000IU/WEEKLY = 7142iu daily absolutely fine for raising status particularly this time of year, check again maybe in 3months or perhaps in March before the summer just to see if you can drop down to one every 10days. But it is safer to be higher than 55ng than below so the sooner you get into safe territory the better.

Quote:
and would it be better to break that down to daily?
only if you are pregnant or trying to become so or if you are breastfeeding. The baby either in the womb or out requires a STEADY intake of D3 If this is or may become the case then use something like this 5000iu in MCT oil there are others in fish oil or olive oil. Alternate ONE on odd days and TWO DAILY on even days of the weeks. That way over a week you get about the same. or if that sounds too complicated take one of these 2400iu with a 5000iu so you are around the 7400iu/daily intake about the same as the 50,000iu/once a week regime.


Quote:
She also told me to take 400mg of Magnesium.


You have a doctor who knows what she is doing.
Increasing vitamin D status significantly increases absorption of calcium so you now have more calcium than before.
calcium tenses muscle fibers
calcium excites brain neurones
So more calcium on it's own means possibly muscle cramps feeling mentally tense.
Magnesium relaxes muscle fibres
Magnesium calms the brain neurones.
Most people 68% of USA are magnesium deficient so benefit from extra magnesium. When you didn't have sufficient calcium it didn't make your muscles tighten or your brain feel tense, but improving calcium status reveals or points out the magnesium deficiency state. The fact your Doctor anticipated this shows she's on the ball.

Quote:
Which of the magnesium is best for me.
Magensium Chelates are what Krispin suggests.

These MAGNESIUM Malate are cheap and work OK

Some people prefer Magnesium Citrate Code ~~~~~~ $5 discount.


Quote:
Help, please this shocked me.
What is shocking isn't that you didn't know but this is GENERALLY the case. You are absolutely no different from the majority of readers of this forum. It's only the people who are actually taking more than 4000iu/daily that are likely to have levels around 55ng/ml that are sufficient to reduce incidence of cancer/heart disease Diabetes etc.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Thu, Oct-22-09 at 11:47.
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  #34   ^
Old Thu, Oct-22-09, 13:21
Hismouse's Avatar
Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
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One more question, do I need to be taking Calcium, sure don't get enough being on the Atkins diet. Also On my Multi vitamin, it has 200 of calcium, My Dr had told me to take 1500 of calcium...

I found 50,000 D3 at Pro health, and its 53.00. Does this sound right..
I also think buying a 2000 and 5000 and taking this daily would be better, would this work?

How does HCTZ affect D3, I take 25mg a day?.....

Last edited by Hismouse : Thu, Oct-22-09 at 13:46.
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  #35   ^
Old Thu, Oct-22-09, 14:38
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
One more question, do I need to be taking Calcium, sure don't get enough being on the Atkins diet.
Personally I don't take calcium. I'm not happy with the idea of having too much uncontrolled calcium drifting round my body.

Quote:
Also On my Multi vitamin, it has 200 of calcium, My Dr had told me to take 1500 of calcium...
Check through the calcium foodsources and see if you are making 1300mg from food sources daily? You've 200 in the multivit/min

Quote:
I found 50,000 D3 at Pro health, and its 53.00. Does this sound right.
Biotech $30.00 + P&P don't know what that would be)

Quote:
I also think buying a 2000 and 5000 and taking this daily would be better, would this work?
The ones I suggested would be slightly better as they take you a tad over rather than under the amount your doctor suggested. These in fish oil may be a good idea but you really don't have to worry about overdoing it as up to 10,000iu/daily is known to be safe even if you also get sunlight and it doesn't sound as if you've been getting much of that and thus it's likely this won't change over the winter. So I stick with my 2400 + 5000iu D3 daily = 7400iu and being a bit over will give you a bit more leeway if you forget a day. Remember the 50,000iu/week is safe so if you do forget just double up the next day. So long as the total over the week is about 50,000iu that will enable your body to get to the level it would naturally attain and maintain if you lived as your DNA EVOLVED.

Quote:
How does HCTZ affect D3, I take 25mg a day?.....
This is what the drug interactions checker says
Patients receiving thiazide diuretic therapy should be cautioned against self-treatment with calcium and vitamin D supplements without first talking to their healthcare provider. Serum calcium should be monitored if thiazide diuretics are coadministered with high dosages of calcium and/or vitamin D. Patients should be advised to seek medical attention if they experience signs and symptoms of hypercalcemia such as dizziness, weakness, lethargy, headache, myalgia, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and seizures.

However you have consulted your health professional.
You have been advised to take a sensible amount of calcium and a sensible logical amount of vitamin d.


You can also look at the graph from this paper that shows that never has anyone experienced hypercalcemia or other adverse events at the 7400iu/d intake I've suggested. You can see the white triangles (adverse events) occur only at much higher daily intakes.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Fri, Oct-23-09 at 02:33.
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Oct-25-09, 10:49
Hismouse's Avatar
Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
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Well I got a email from My Doctor, she said to start the 50,000 stat, and she called in a precription.... Would I be better to by the 50,000 for ProHealth, because how can I be sure the kaiser Precription is the D3. She also told me to get the chewable Calcium And take 500 am and 500 pm. Can't I just eat enough Calcium rich foods and keep it up to 1,200, I hate the constipation I get from Calcium. Oh yeah, I need to get the Magnesium also.
My Question is, do I buy the BIO-TECH or the Kaiser Foundation Precription?

Thank you for all the help, Debbie

Last edited by Hismouse : Sun, Oct-25-09 at 11:46.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Oct-25-09, 12:20
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
Well I got a email from My Doctor, she said to start the 50,000 stat, and she called in a precription.... Would I be better to by the 50,000 for ProHealth, because how can I be sure the kaiser Precription is the D3. She also told me to get the chewable Calcium And take 500 am and 500 pm. Can't I just eat enough Calcium rich foods and keep it up to 1,200, I hate the constipation I get from Calcium. Oh yeah, I need to get the Magnesium also.

My Question is, do I buy the BIO-TECH or the Kaiser Foundation Precription?

Thank you for all the help, Debbie
You can be absolutely certain that if you order the
Biotech Pharmacal D-3-50 (50,000IU) 100ct $30.00 100ct $30 you will be getting the most effective, longest lasting most efficient, human form of vitamin D.
I have absolutely not links with Biotech and get no discount or other reward for saying their product is in my view better than ergocalciferol of the same strength.

Whether you get the Biotech or Prohealth $43.49 free P&P really depends on how much Biotech charge for shipping. I doubt p&p is $13.49 but you'll have to find out from Biotech's website. You can always phone them during working hours and speak to a real person.

Only if the Kaiser Foundation Precription is guaranteed Cholecalciferol vitamin d3 is it worth taking IMO.
I am not aware of any 50,000iu vitamin D available on prescription that is NOT ERGOCALCIFEROL.
If someone can prove me wrong they I would be delighted to hear from you and it would be helpful if you could put the product details online so we can share this information with others.
Calcium foodsources. I think you should do both at the moment as it is probable you have both a calcium and Vitamin D deficit to correct. Eating BOTH calcium rich foods AND taking 2 x 500mg calcium daily will not cause an overdose scenario in someone who is currently deficient. When you have proven to yourself and your doctor that you are reliably eating sufficient calcium rich foods then maybe she will let you stop the tablets. Calcium from food is better utilized by the body than calcium from supplements so please do try to get plenty from food. Keep a food log for a few days just to make sure.

The percentage of calcium absorbed depends on the total amount of elemental calcium consumed at one time; as the amount increases, the percentage absorption decreases. Absorption is highest in doses ≤500 mg. So, for example, one who takes 1,000 mg/day of calcium from supplements might split the dose and take 500 mg at two separate times during the day.

This is NOT the same as vitamin D which you can safely take once a week and there will be no measurable difference when compared to the 7150iu daily (except for the baby in the case of pregnant/ nursing mothers.)

I suspect your doctor thinks taking a supplement will be more reliable than relying on you choosing and eating the right foods. So as I think your doctor knows you better than I do you should in this respect do as she says.
With regard to the Vitamin D3 that is the best form and will be more effective than the only form of 50000iu your doctor has available to prescribe.

It is important that you take the same amount as she says you require.

Don't forget the magnesium and maybe also think about some vitamin K2.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Sun, Oct-25-09 at 12:27.
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  #38   ^
Old Tue, Oct-27-09, 16:42
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Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
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Got my order form IHerb today, so quick, orderded it Sunday Night, and here it is today... 2 days wow!

My BIO-Tech 50,000 iu will be here soon to, she said it went out yesterday.

Have one questions

My multi has Calcium and Magnesium in it, should I take the Chelated Calcium and Magnesium at the same time or at Lunch.
I am bringing them both up to a higher amount
my multi
magnesium 100
the chelated 250mg

My Multi calcium 200
Chelated is 500mg


dr said to take 1,000 calcium, but I eat 500 day.
dr said take 400 of Magnesium, I eat a hand full of walnuts a day and green leafy too....

So is this ok?
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  #39   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 03:22
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
Got my order form IHerb today, so quick, orderded it Sunday Night, and here it is today... 2 days wow!

My BIO-Tech 50,000 iu will be here soon to, she said it went out yesterday.

Have one questions

My multi has Calcium and Magnesium in it, should I take the Chelated Calcium and Magnesium at the same time or at Lunch.
I am bringing them both up to a higher amount
my multi
magnesium 100
the chelated 250mg

My Multi calcium 200
Chelated is 500mg


dr said to take 1,000 calcium, but I eat 500 day.
dr said take 400 of Magnesium, I eat a hand full of walnuts a day and green leafy too....

So is this ok?

Quote:
My Dr had told me to take 1500 of calcium.

With calcium as I explained earlier the more frequently you consume small amount the better the absorption so don't combine the calcium supplements so you take at large amount at once but try to take some calcium and magnesium at each calcium/magnesium rich meal,

At the end of the each day you need to be able to account for a total of 1500mg calcium and 400mg magnesium consumed that day.

It would perhaps be best if you provided a link or said exactly which of the magnesium and or calcium tablets you bought, then I could explain what I would do to ensure I had maximum absorption.
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  #40   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 11:15
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Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
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I bought Carlsons Chelated Calcium 250mg, and Country Life Chelated Magnesium 250mg.

Hope this helps,,, and again thank you so much for all your help Debbie
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  #41   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 11:49
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Amount Per 4 Tablets Calcium 1000 mg

so really as your doctor wants you to total 1500mg calcium daily ideally you should take one capsule 5 times a day and your multi + food sources gets you over the 1500mg

If 5 times daily is too complicated then take 2 calcium chelates tbefore breakfast and 2 before lunch and the multi + 1 chelate before your evening meal. 1250 mg from the chelates 200 from the multi and hopefully some more from your food.

The magnesium you can just take the multi and and one chelate. 250 +200=450
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  #42   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 15:23
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msdbobby msdbobby is offline
~ JUST DO IT!!! ~
Posts: 3,094
 
Plan: Atkins / M&E
Stats: 191/181/150 Female 5'2"
BF:Getting lower
Progress: 24%
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Wow Deb,
I'm glad you asked so many questions. I read through this thread and it's been really helpful.

Ok, my own question. I have never been tested but would like to start taking vitamin D3. I'm thinking of taking 5000 iu daily. I'm ordering from Biotech. https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/d...d=2&subcat_id=0.

I don't know if I should order the 50,000 iu instead and take 1 once a week. I know there's a lot more info needed to properly point me in the right direction. Here's some basic info, I'm 38 and seem healthy but I have trouble losing weight even with diet and exercise. I have joint pain mostly in my knees and fingers. I'm fatigued often and don't feel like I have a ton of energy. I live in CO but work from home so I don't get a lot of sun. It's snowing now and I think it's going to be a long dreary winter.

I've been doing research on vitamin D but I think I need more help.
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  #43   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 15:47
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdbobby
I don't know if I should order the 50,000 iu instead and take 1 once a week.
The 50,000iu once a week work out a bit cheaper but I don't think it's a big deal. As you've ordered the 5000iu I'd stick with them and from NOW until the end of February I'd take ONE X 5000iu on ODD days of the week and TWO x 5000iu on EVEN days so every 2 days you take a total of 3 capsules = 15,000iu = 7500iu/daily. This is roughly what hismouse will be taking with her 50,000iu/weekly.
Most of us use about 5000~6000iu/daily and therefore to correct deficiency we need MORE than this to restore our levels and while in summer we can get some from sunshine in winter this extra source isn't available so it's harder to catch up.
People with chronic conditions generally require more than "healthy" people so using a tad more than you require over the winter will probably fill up the tank quicker.
Perhaps you could consider a Grassrootshealth 25(OH)D test towards the end of Feb to check you are over the 60ng/ml level and you can then decide, with more sun becoming available if it would be agood idea to drop down to 5000iu/daily.
Some people use D3 better than others so it all depends on your sensitivity.
However we do know for certain that up to 10.000iu daily is absolutely safe even in places where the sun is available all year and 7500iu/d is nicely under that Safe Upper Limit.
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  #44   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 15:55
msdbobby's Avatar
msdbobby msdbobby is offline
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Posts: 3,094
 
Plan: Atkins / M&E
Stats: 191/181/150 Female 5'2"
BF:Getting lower
Progress: 24%
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Thank you for the quick response.
Quote:
I'd take ONE X 5000iu on ODD days of the week and TWO x 5000iu on EVEN days so every 2 days you take a total of 3 capsules = 15,000iu = 7500iu/daily.

Let's see if I got this right. Which days would I take 3 capsules?
Mon 5000
Tues 10000
Weds 5000
Thurs 10000
Fri 5000
Sat 10000
Sun 5000

Update:
I can understand why you're confused Deb. I just looked at my multi vitamin. I take 2 daily, Vit D there is 400 iu x 2. If the safe weekly upper limit is 50,000 iu then maybe I should cut back on the amts above? I haven't placed the order. I could order the 5000 and the 1000 to have better control and be able to change the amts easier.

Last edited by msdbobby : Wed, Oct-28-09 at 16:19.
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  #45   ^
Old Wed, Oct-28-09, 16:08
msdbobby's Avatar
msdbobby msdbobby is offline
~ JUST DO IT!!! ~
Posts: 3,094
 
Plan: Atkins / M&E
Stats: 191/181/150 Female 5'2"
BF:Getting lower
Progress: 24%
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I also want to order Magnesium. Biotech has Magnesium Carbonate and I could include it w/ my Vit D order to save on shipping. If that's not a good one I was thinking of ordering Country Life, Chelated Magnesium, 250 mg, 180 Tablets.
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