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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Oct-15-09, 15:14
Hismouse's Avatar
Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
Default Is a Vitamin D

My Dr. said she ordered a 25 hydroxy Vitamin D test, it this the same as 25 (OH) D? Or is this the 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin d test?
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Oct-16-09, 07:06
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

This is a good question. I don't believe the tests are the same but you will get some great info here
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=396439
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Oct-16-09, 07:46
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,357
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
My Dr. said she ordered a 25 hydroxy Vitamin D test, it this the same as 25 (OH) D? Or is this the 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin d test?

OH means hydroxy, so yes, a 25 hydroxy Vitamin D test is the same as a 25(OH)D test.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Oct-16-09, 14:17
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

25(OH)D test from Grassrootshealth is the cheapest source I knowat $40 and Rosebud is quite right it is the test to measure the circulating level of 25 hydroxy vitamin D.

When your doctor gets the result you need to understand the goal posts have moved over the last few years. This Mercola article spells it out.


To get into the 50~65ng/ml range really is going to require roughly 5000~6000iu/daily and you may need to take 50,000iu ONCE A WEEK for probably 8 weeks to get status up ASP. (some might suggest one 50,000iu every 5 days to speed up to target faster)

You do need to check if your doctor is going to prescribe Vitamin D that the correct effective long lasting human form is going to be supplied. Some pharmacies are putting a label on 50,000iu ERGOCALCIFEROL capsules that implies they are Drisdol ~ MAXIMUM D3 however MAXIMUM D3 supply only 10,000iu d3 CAPLETS while the DRISDOL are ERGOCALCIFEROL and are actually D2. I have had many online arguments with people who think they have been prescribed D3 and are taking 50,000IU and it looks like this and they find it hard to accept the truth that this is in fact D2 ergocalciferol.

D2 AND D3 are NOT the same thing.

As the price of D3 is so cheap and initially you will use one ever 5~7days then probably when status reaches 60ng/ml 150nmol/l drop down to perhaps one x 50,000iu every 10 days = 5000iu/d it's hardly worth getting them on prescription. Even if you moved over to 5000iu the cost remains so trivial it's hardly worth the trouble going through your doctor.

PS The suggested ranges above of 65~90ng/ml are to support Cancer Treatment. They are developing patented analogues of vitamin D3 that they claim will be 10X more effective than the natural form (and inevitably a lot more expensive) so until these are available using the natural form in larger amounts as Dr Cannell sets out here is probably going to be helpful.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Sat, Oct-17-09 at 02:15.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Oct-16-09, 17:00
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,178
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Your little chart kind of makes it look like you get cancer if your level is above optimal.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Oct-16-09, 17:28
LarryAJ's Avatar
LarryAJ LarryAJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 702
 
Plan: PP/PPLP
Stats: 150/140/140 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

So >100 ng/ml means you have an excess of Vitamin D in your blood, BUT at what point does the excess become harmful, if it indeed does?? What are the symptoms of excess, other than killing cancer cells?
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Oct-16-09, 22:44
Hismouse's Avatar
Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
Default

I had the test today at kaiser, checked to see if it was done yet, but not yet.....I had a A1c also.....


I have been taking 400 D3, and a lot of other Vitamins and am finally starting to lose weight, it has to be this stuff, because I have been stuck for yrs.... I feel so much better, if the fibro pain wiould leave I would feel perfect.

Once I get the D test back I will up it as needed. or per Doctors orders.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Oct-17-09, 02:51
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hismouse
I have been taking 400 D3,
Naturally full body naked human skin UVB exposure makes 10,000iu in a very short time. So using 400iu is an unnaturally small amount that represents less than 10% of you body's ideal daily usage.

For a better understand of vitamin D deficiency you would do well to listen to Heaney's talk
Whats a Vitamin D Deficiency? BEFORE you listen to your doctor.

to lower chronic disease incidence we need to raise 25(OH)D to the natural levels naked human bodies normally attain and maintain.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Oct-17-09, 07:19
Jayseem's Avatar
Jayseem Jayseem is offline
Carpe Diem
Posts: 1,029
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 310/260/185 Male 70
BF:42/33.7/25
Progress: 40%
Location: SE Wisconsin
Default

I am currently trying to understand Vitamin D myself and, for me, the most useful site that I have found is:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/
On that site I found these sections to be very useful: #1. How To Get Enough Vitamin D and #2. Understanding Vitamin D Cholecalciferol.

The information is very easy for me to understand and answers many questions that I have had about Vitamin D. So with shorter days approaching and fewer opportunities to get direct sunlight I have some good information on how to supplement my Vitamin D intake.
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Oct-17-09, 23:30
Hismouse's Avatar
Hismouse Hismouse is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,488
 
Plan: Meat, Veggies, Nuts
Stats: 181/185/130 Female 61.5
BF:Falling Fluff
Progress: -8%
Location: Oregon
Default

Thank you so much for the info, I am waiting for my test results, I will let you all know....
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Oct-18-09, 03:05
MiniMoe's Avatar
MiniMoe MiniMoe is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 290/250/200 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Ohio
Default

Hello. My doctor did a 25(OH)D and other tests on me in August, after I had been on a Centrum Silver multivitamin with 500 IU of Vitamin D since my seizure in May. I have only been indoors with curtains closed since then, but eating healthy. Because my results came back 33.1 and he's happy with over 32, he didn't put me on 50,000 IU ergocalciferol pills. I have started one Carlson 2,000 IU Vitamin D3 soft gel per day and will test again at the end of winter. I also started one 200 IU tablet of Carlson Chelated Magnesium daily with that, and he started me on Lovaza fish oil. Good luck on your results.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Oct-18-09, 04:12
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMoe
Hello. My doctor did a 25(OH)D and other tests on me in August, after I had been on a Centrum Silver multivitamin with 500 IU of Vitamin D since my seizure in May. I have only been indoors with curtains closed since then, but eating healthy. Because my results came back 33.1 and he's happy with over 32, he didn't put me on 50,000 IU ergocalciferol pills. I have started one Carlson 2,000 IU Vitamin D3 soft gel per day and will test again at the end of winter. I also started one 200 IU tablet of Carlson Chelated Magnesium daily with that, and he started me on Lovaza fish oil. Good luck on your results.

This is why it is important to do your own research and not rely on the medical profession.
32ng/ml is just sufficient to keep your calcium intake about right.

It may suit the best financial interests of your doctor and other health professionals to keep your levels just above the level at which rickets occurs but doesn't offer any protection from the great money earners like cancer, heart disease or diabetes but it doesn't suit me or my best financial and health interests.

55ng is a far safer level but not for the career prospects or financial interests of doctors.

There is a reason why doctors choose Lovaza and the sooner you realize the scam the better
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Oct-18-09, 07:06
MiniMoe's Avatar
MiniMoe MiniMoe is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 290/250/200 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Ohio
Default

Hello, Ted. I am happy to see you over here! I have read and benefitted from many of your of your posts and links on this site. Thank you for them. If the rule of thumb that every 1,000 IU of D3 raises serum 25(OH)D 10 points is near accurate, I hope to see over 50 on my next test. Then we'll see where to go from there.

Honestly, in a way I was fishing (pun intended) when I mentioned Lovaza to see if anyone here would link to one of the many condemnations in Davis's blog. ;-)

I pay a $22 copay (no sales tax, no shipping) for a 90 day supply of 360 capsules (three 120 capsule bottles) of Lovaza. That's 6 per capsule, not $4.33. At $37.98, Davis pays Costco (which we don't have around here) 58% more for two 180 capsule bottles than I do for Lovaza.

Were I not able to get the Lovaza so inexpensively, I'd choose the equivalent amount of Carlson's finest fish oil (two 500ml and one 200 ml bottle) at 2.6 teaspoons per day. I'd personally pay Amazon $55-60 for that (or Nordic Naturals) before I'd buy a product from an unknown manufacturer.
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Oct-18-09, 08:00
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,178
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I missed the Lovaza reference but might've let it go anyway.

I can easily get a bottle of fish oil for 8-9 dollars, 90 capsules. Costco, Trader Joes, online from iherb.com. Health food stores usually aren't good places to buy vitamins, IMHO. Too expensive. The important thing, if you read Dr. Davis and it sounds like you do, is the strength of the EPA+DHA added together. How many of the Lovaza at what doseage do you have to take daily?
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Oct-18-09, 09:14
MiniMoe's Avatar
MiniMoe MiniMoe is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 290/250/200 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Ohio
Default

Hello, Nancy. I do read Davis' blog and anything else I can get my hands (browser these days) on. :-)

As far as I know, the only strength of Lovaza sold is the one gram capsules containing 465 mg EPA plus 375 mg DHA equaling 840 mg of EPA+DHA (which as you note, is what counts). I take two capsules twice daily (four a day total) or 360 every 90 days. I believe this is the most commonly prescribed dosage.

My Lovaza bottle states a total omega-3-acid ethyl esters of "at least 900 mg" per capsule. I believe this is the number Davis cites for his Costco capsules in the blog post Ted linked to above, but I don't believe Davis has ever cited the EPA or DHA numbers for them (these are sometimes not available for less expensive products).

The other reason I mentioned magnesium and fish oil was for the original poster, Hismouse, since these (and calcium and diet) are related to vitamin D supplementation. I congratulate her on getting tested and determining her own supplement requirement, rather than accepting an X-thousand unit rule of thumb. I hope she also researches these related supplements and shops for herself, rather than just accepts data which may or may not be entirely accurate in her case.
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