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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jul-09-09, 08:22
DTris DTris is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 271
 
Plan: Based on Barry Groves
Stats: 275/252/210 Male 6 feet
BF:
Progress: 35%
Default Should all animals eat a high fat, low carb diet? Barry Groves article

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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jul-09-09, 14:30
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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I LOVE it. Too bad I can't print this out, roll it up and then use it to beat Dr. Oz with
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Jul-09-09, 15:43
SueT SueT is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 248
 
Plan: was Atkins, now undecided
Stats: 290/290/160 Female 67 inches
BF:off the scale
Progress: 0%
Location: CT
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I wonder if they counted the bugs that cattle eat when calculating the protein percentage.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jul-09-09, 20:39
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
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I'm too lazy, but I'd bet a week's unemployment check that you could find plenty of evidence that humans are designed to be omnivores. We've got a gut midway between in design between hindgut herbivores and carnivores. We can't ferment fiber into SCFA, but we can extract minerals from plants. And so on and so on. I'm surprised Groves would try and argue that we're carnivores with a thing for arugula.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jul-10-09, 06:55
DTris DTris is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 271
 
Plan: Based on Barry Groves
Stats: 275/252/210 Male 6 feet
BF:
Progress: 35%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_cohn
I'm too lazy, but I'd bet a week's unemployment check that you could find plenty of evidence that humans are designed to be omnivores. We've got a gut midway between in design between hindgut herbivores and carnivores. We can't ferment fiber into SCFA, but we can extract minerals from plants. And so on and so on. I'm surprised Groves would try and argue that we're carnivores with a thing for arugula.


There is almost no such thing as a complete carnivore or a complete herbivore. However if you compare the human digestive tract with that of a bear which is a true omnivore you can tell that we are much more closely related to carnivores by digestive design.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jul-10-09, 07:42
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
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Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
There is almost no such thing as a complete carnivore or a complete herbivore.

Ferrets and cats are obligate carnivores.
Geese and cows are herbivores...but even they will eat easily obtainable animal protein in the form of insects
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jul-10-09, 12:57
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Great article. Ill have to remember that next time I hear "humans aren't carnivores because our intestine is too long, not short like a dog's." Apparently our appendix is all that's left of a "hind-gut" if we ever had one.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jul-24-11, 15:24
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Ah Ha, that argument/discussion just came up again this weekend, so I searched out, then referenced this article:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/sh...-carb-diet.html
Quote:
It is noticeable that no animal in its natural habitat, eating its natural food, is overweight, diabetic or suffers any of the other 'diseases of civilization' that plague us. The fact that the animals we keep as pets, or use as food animals, which have their foods controlled by us, also suffer these diseases, adds to the weight of evidence that our idea of what constitutes a 'healthy diet' — low in fats and high in carbs, is completely wrong.



.

Last edited by mike_d : Sun, Jul-24-11 at 15:36. Reason: sp, gram
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Jul-24-11, 16:00
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Also note that the less nutritional science there is, the better the health. In this era of deepest nutritional science and most extensive knowledge, we are the sickest and fattest we've ever been.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jul-24-11, 16:13
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,765
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Ah Ha, that argument/discussion just came up again this weekend, so I searched out, then referenced this article:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/sh...-carb-diet.html


.
My overweight dogs became thin when they started eating my high-fat, low-carb leftovers instead of pasta and bread.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jul-24-11, 17:00
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Angeline Angeline is offline
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Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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I don't think that dog and cat food is so full of carbs because the the manufacturers thinks that's what they need. I think it's filled with carbs because it's dirt cheap and they can improve their profit margins.

This argument easily extends to humans, except that we have managed to delude ourselves that it's actually the best way to eat.

I wonder if vegetables really deserves to be on the pedestal we have put them. Oh well, no matter. I've given up grains and sugar, but I ain't giving up veggies too.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Jul-24-11, 18:02
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline
I don't think that dog and cat food is so full of carbs because the the manufacturers thinks that's what they need. I think it's filled with carbs because it's dirt cheap and they can improve their profit margins.

This argument easily extends to humans, except that we have managed to delude ourselves that it's actually the best way to eat.

I wonder if vegetables really deserves to be on the pedestal we have put them. Oh well, no matter. I've given up grains and sugar, but I ain't giving up veggies too.

I think you're on to something. Maybe profit is such a strong incentive that we went so far as to convince ourselves that carbs are good for us in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jul-25-11, 06:30
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,684
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
I think you're on to something. Maybe profit is such a strong incentive that we went so far as to convince ourselves that carbs are good for us in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.


I am certain that is why pet foods are full of corn; it's dirt cheap, it doesn't go bad, and it's easily shaped into pellets for handling.

However, my cats' weight, health, and fur all improved dramatically when I ditched the grains in their food.

Likewise, in humans, eating what giant corporations serve up means we ingest a lot of cheap carbs, transfats, and chemicals. I've never understood people who claim low carb is too expensive. If all you were eating were rice and beans, yes. But most people buy the $3 box of cookies and the $4 box of cereal; switching that out for a $7 package of hamburger is much cheaper in terms of the nutrients we would get for the same money.

It's like acting as though the cheap shirt that is going to shrink as soon as you wash it is a better bargain than the more expensive shirt that will last for years.
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jul-25-11, 07:21
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

As Paul Harvey would say ... (pause) "and now the rest of the story!"

Comparing the gut of Human, dog and sheep. I just looked up the Grizzly Bear digestive tract, now that was interesting.

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/ca...comparison.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/diseases_index.html

Commercial Pet Foods Can Kill:


Last edited by mike_d : Mon, Jul-25-11 at 09:29. Reason: Pic
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Jul-25-11, 08:05
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear

It's like acting as though the cheap shirt that is going to shrink as soon as you wash it is a better bargain than the more expensive shirt that will last for years.


Some people never get their heard around that simple fact. To be fair, some people can't afford anything else (and some can't, but buy the more expensive stuff anyway and end up in debt).

I think the problem with food, is that there is this huge lack of awareness about the importance of nutrition and it's far-reaching impact on health. Yeah everyone keeps hearing about a diet of fruits and vegetables, whole-grain, lean meat and low-fat dairy blah blah. But it's just a vague thing, something to worry about in the future when you're "old". People don't realize the huge immediate impact food can have on your feeling of well-being, mood and energy level. That's why we need more education.

I'm not holding my breath however, since most of the health community is just as blissfully ignorant as the rest
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