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  #46   ^
Old Sat, Jun-06-09, 02:25
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeph317
thanks! i appreciate the information. i found the book on amazon and i'm going to order it. hopefully adding vitamin k will help his body use the d better. i'm anxious to see what the next bone scan will show.

how high would you go with his dose? 10,000, increasing slowly? he was only taking 2000 and i recently doubled it. how long would you wait to increase again?
I would take the opposite approach, your body is far better at wasting D3 than it is at saving it, so start with loading dose and work down.
The usual practice is to start with 50,000iu/WEEKLY for eight weeks and then drop down to around 5000iu/d or whatever 1000iu per 25lbs weight results in.
However people with chronic conditions may do better with levels above 70ng and it will probably take around 10,000iu/daily to keep above 70ng. In which case one 50,000iu every 5 days would be fine.

Demi posted the Vitamin D Councils Newsletter recently and that's got more information.

As we know D3 is an inert substance and taking 10,000iu/daily is safe even when combined with regular sun exposure the sooner deficiency is corrected the better. A 25(OH)D test in 3 months will show if he's around the 60~70ng level and you can then work out if a lower intake is required or not.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Sun, Jun-07-09 at 02:33.
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  #47   ^
Old Sat, Jun-06-09, 08:12
zeph317's Avatar
zeph317 zeph317 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,889
 
Plan: carnivore
Stats: 205/152/150 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 96%
Location: florida
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thanks! i gave him 10,000iu this morning and need to find higher dose pills so he's not taking 25 pills a day (to get to 50,000iu). he's already taking so many other meds and i figure it's not the most cost effective way either.

i went through his blood work from the endocrinologist and it looks like they've never taken a vitamin D level. that surprised me. we see him again soon and i'll have to ask about that.
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  #48   ^
Old Sun, Jun-07-09, 01:47
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 21,754
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 215/170/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: UK
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From Modern Medicine:

Quote:
Vitamin D deficiency accelerates atherosclerosis in type 1 diabetics

Publish date: Jun 7, 2009
By: Maude L. Campbell, Clinical Managing Editor

"Vitamin D deficiency is common worldwide and could be a novel risk factor for the development of coronary artery atherosclerosis," says Ramachandra B. Naik, MD, of the Barbara Davis Center for Childhood Diabetes, University of Colorado, Denver.

Dr. Naik presented study results indicating that although vitamin D (25-OHD) deficiency is not increased among type 1 diabetes patients, a deficiency in this patient population is associated with the initiation and acceleration of coronary artery calcification.

Furthermore, researchers have identified vitamin D-receptor gene (VDR) polymorphisms that may be responsible for lower 25-OHD levels. "There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that vitamin D deficiency with VDR polymorphism may accelerate atherosclerosis," Dr. Naik says.

Dr. Naik assessed vitamin D levels, VDR polymorphisms, and coronary artery calcification in 375 patients with type 1 diabetes who participated in the Coronary Artery Calcification in Type 1 Diabetes study. Measurements were taken at the 3-year and 6-year study visits.

Patients had type 1 diabetes of at least 10 years' duration. Vitamin D deficiency was defined as serum levels of 20 ng/mL or less, insufficiency was defined as levels of 21 to 30 ng/mL or less, and a normal vitamin D level was greater than 30 ng/mL. Of the 375 patients, about 10% were deficient and 20 to 30% had vitamin D insufficiency.

"The TT phenotype of the Fok1 VDR is associated with significantly higher levels of vitamin D deficiency, and vitamin D status was independent of the diabetic state," says Dr. Naik. Dr. Naik found that vitamin D deficiency was an independent predictor for coronary artery calcification identified at the 3-year visit (odds ratio [OR]=2.8; p=0.003). Other predictors were age, type 1 diabetes status, and male sex (OR=2.3, 2.6, and 2.7, respectively; p=0.001).

Vitamin D deficiency was also a significant predictor of progression of coronary artery calcification between the 3- and 6-year assessments but only among patients initially free of calcification at 3 years (p=0.05), Dr. Naik reports.

"In other words, both VDR phenotype and vitamin D deficiency are risk factors for atherosclerosis," Dr. Naik says. He adds that glycemic control was not an influencing factor in this study.

http://www.modernmedicine.com:80/mo...ategoryId=40137
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  #49   ^
Old Sun, Jun-07-09, 01:54
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 21,754
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 215/170/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeph317
thanks! i gave him 10,000iu this morning and need to find higher dose pills so he's not taking 25 pills a day (to get to 50,000iu). he's already taking so many other meds and i figure it's not the most cost effective way either.
Biotech sell 50,000iu D3, details here: https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/d...d=2&subcat_id=0
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  #50   ^
Old Sun, Jun-07-09, 08:01
zeph317's Avatar
zeph317 zeph317 is offline
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Posts: 1,889
 
Plan: carnivore
Stats: 205/152/150 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 96%
Location: florida
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oh wow, thanks demi!
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  #51   ^
Old Sun, Jun-07-09, 10:02
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Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
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Thanks for posting the link to that Vieth study, Hutchinson!
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  #52   ^
Old Sun, Jun-07-09, 10:24
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
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I must say that I love this thread sooooo much. There is just so much information here that I need a dose of vitamin D just to read this thing. Anything that I want to learn about vitamin D but was afraid to ask...is right here. I just can't make very many comments on it. I will have my vitamin D levels checked this summer. I'd like to get everyone's vitamin D levels checked. Especially my mom's who is on dyalisis. In a week or two, I will be off of work for a couple of months and will be concentrating on our health.

Thanks guys,
Mary
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  #53   ^
Old Wed, Jun-10-09, 12:56
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 21,754
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 215/170/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: UK
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Have just received this in an email from Dr Cannell of the Vitamin D Council:


Quote:
Dear Readers:

Medicare is up to it again, again trying to put dangerous restrictions on Vitamin D testing. Although the proposed guidelines for reimbursement are not as restrictive as Medicare's recent proposal, this proposal is restrictive none the less and, within a few months, will be adopted by your insurance company and every major insurance company in the country. Here is Medicare's new proposal:

http://www.highmarkmedicareservices...ab/dl30273.html

Measurement of vitamin D levels would only be indicated for patients with:
  • chronic kidney disease stage III or greater
  • cancer
  • cirrhosis
  • diabetes
  • fibromyalgia
  • granuloma forming diseases
  • hypocalcemia
  • hypercalcemia
  • hypovitaminosis D
  • long term use of anticonvulsants or glucocorticoids
  • malabsorption states
  • obstructive jaundice
  • osteoporosis (unresponsive to therapy)
  • osteomalacia
  • osteosclerosis
  • psoriasis
  • rickets
  • vitamin D deficiency on replacement therapy; to monitor the efficacy of treatment

It would forbid screening, the most important use of the test. That is, hypovitaminosis D is covered but your doctor can't order the test to find out if you suffer from low Vitamin D in the first place.

You can send your comments via the Internet using the link below. For using the link below for your comments, this proposal's LCD number is DL30273. The name of the proposal is "Vitamin D Assay Testing."

http://www.highmarkmedicareservices...m-comments.html

If you'd rather send a letter, which is better, sent it to:

Ms. Anna Gene Risoldi
Senior Research Analyst
Highmark Medicare Services
1800 Center Street, 1AL3
Camp Hill, PA 17089

May I also ask that you send an email with your comments to Dr. Daniel B. Kimball, Jr., (drdankimball~gmail.com). He's on the AMA board that reviews this policy.

John Cannell, MD

The Vitamin D Council
585 Leff Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
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  #54   ^
Old Wed, Jun-10-09, 13:44
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Posts: 16,619
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/350.4/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Maryland, US
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I was just coming to post that, Demi, lol.

I already sent my response.
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  #55   ^
Old Wed, Jun-10-09, 13:47
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
Have just received this in an email from Dr Cannell of the Vitamin D Council:
May I remind readers that 25(OH)D testing is available worldwide for just $40
The Vitamin D testing scenario is much the same in the UK. Although I have asked for and had a couple of 25(OH)D tests from my GP I think this was the exception rather than the rule. I've friends and relatives who have asked for a test and been refused. I've another relative who had a Grassrootshealth test that showed 10ng ~ 25nmol/l (severely deficient) who was told 800iu/d will solve the problem. (standard treatment for deficiency = 50,000iu/weekly for 8 weeks then 2,000-7,000 IU vitamin D per day should be sufficient to maintain year-round 25(OH)D levels between 40-70 ng per mL.
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  #56   ^
Old Wed, Jun-10-09, 15:40
PS Diva's Avatar
PS Diva PS Diva is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,102
 
Plan: Low GI
Stats: 220/214/145 Female 67
BF:yes, I admit it
Progress: 8%
Location: Western New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
May I remind readers that 25(OH)D testing is available worldwide for just $40
The Vitamin D testing scenario is much the same in the UK. Although I have asked for and had a couple of 25(OH)D tests from my GP I think this was the exception rather than the rule. I've friends and relatives who have asked for a test and been refused. I've another relative who had a Grassrootshealth test that showed 10ng ~ 25nmol/l (severely deficient) who was told 800iu/d will solve the problem. (standard treatment for deficiency = 50,000iu/weekly for 8 weeks then 2,000-7,000 IU vitamin D per day should be sufficient to maintain year-round 25(OH)D levels between 40-70 ng per mL.
I live in New York State where self testing is not permitted.
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  #57   ^
Old Thu, Jun-11-09, 03:28
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Diva
I live in New York State where self testing is not permitted.
Ridiculous isn't it that NY citizens aren't considered sufficiently mature to take responsibility for their own health.

Perhaps you have a friend who would sign up on your behalf.
using your email address but their postal address.

If you are very lawabiding you could pay your friend a visit to drop 2 drops of blood on the test strip. Personally I'd just redirect the package.
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  #58   ^
Old Thu, Jun-11-09, 04:09
PS Diva's Avatar
PS Diva PS Diva is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,102
 
Plan: Low GI
Stats: 220/214/145 Female 67
BF:yes, I admit it
Progress: 8%
Location: Western New York
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Yeah, I am sure there are many ways around it. And I do find it very frustrating. So far I supplement without checking vitamin d levels. This is one of the few supplements I take where I can actually FEEL the beneficial effects!
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  #59   ^
Old Thu, Jun-11-09, 12:45
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default Successful weight loss with dieting is linked to vitamin D levels

Successful weight loss with dieting is linked to vitamin D levelsVitamin D levels in the body at the start of a low-calorie diet predict weight loss success, a new study found. The results, which suggest a possible role for vitamin D in weight loss, were presented at The Endocrine Society's 91st Annual Meeting in Washington, D.C.

"Vitamin D deficiency is associated with obesity, but it is not clear if inadequate vitamin D causes obesity or the other way around," said the study's lead author, Shalamar Sibley, MD, MPH, an assistant professor of medicine at the University of Minnesota.

In this study, the authors attempted to determine whether baseline vitamin D levels before calorie restriction affect subsequent weight loss. They measured circulating blood levels of vitamin D in 38 overweight men and women before and after the subjects followed a diet plan for 11 weeks consisting of 750 calories a day fewer than their estimated total needs. Subjects also had their fat distribution measured with DXA (bone densitometry) scans.

On average, subjects had vitamin D levels that many experts would consider to be in the insufficient range, according to Sibley. However, the authors found that baseline, or pre-diet, vitamin D levels predicted weight loss in a linear relationship. For every increase of 1 ng/mL in level of 25-hydroxycholecalciferol—the precursor form of vitamin D and a commonly used indicator of vitamin D status—subjects ended up losing almost a half pound (0.196 kg) more on their calorie-restricted diet. For each 1-ng/mL increase in the active or "hormonal" form of vitamin D (1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol), subjects lost nearly one-quarter pound (0.107 kg) more.

Additionally, higher baseline vitamin D levels (both the precursor and active forms) predicted greater loss of abdominal fat.

"Our results suggest the possibility that the addition of vitamin D to a reduced-calorie diet will lead to better weight loss," Sibley said.

She cautioned, however, that more research is needed. "Our findings," she said, "need to be followed up by the right kind of controlled clinical trial to determine if there is a role for vitamin D supplementation in helping people lose weight when they attempt to cut back on what they eat."

Pay no attention to the fact it was a diet limiting calories to 750 below Metabolic rate, it's almost certain the same would apply to Atkins type low carb diets as they curb appetite and intake of calories is reduced naturally.

For each 1ng higher subjects ended up losing almost a half pound more.
10ng requires an extra 1000iu/d
Most UK adults average 20ng and theideal is 55ng.
so at least 3500iu/d is required.
In practice Dr Davis in Wisconsin finds women require 5000iu/d and men 6000iu to get to above 55ng. ($5 Iherb discount codes in referrer's board)

I've suspected for some time the fact I have lost weight so easily, and kept it off without being particularly abstemious, was due to my vitamin d/omega 3/magnesium status, but I had a high status while eating carbs and I found it impossible to lose weight and keep it off, so the vit d/omega 3/magnesium wasn't providing any advantage then but as soon as I cut the carbs the weight dropped off and, touch wood, stays off.
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  #60   ^
Old Thu, Jun-11-09, 13:57
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deb34 deb34 is offline
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Posts: 1,892
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 231.6/233.1/199 Female 66 inches
BF:not/low/enough
Progress: -5%
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I'm glad to see this new thread is jumping! I'm mostly a reader but I love the information that keeps coming...thanks everyone
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