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  #46   ^
Old Mon, May-18-09, 17:33
Demokat's Avatar
Demokat Demokat is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,301
 
Plan: Paleo/Organic Fat Flush
Stats: 193/176/145 Female 5'4.5"
BF:42/31/24
Progress: 35%
Location: Boston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickieb
And those pastured eggs are mighty expensive!!


I guess it depends where you buy them. Whole Paycheck, er, Whole Foods runs about $1-$2 higher per dozen than some of the vendors at my local farmers markets.
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  #47   ^
Old Mon, May-18-09, 18:04
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
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OMG! I just calculated the calories and the carbs for my diet. The calories seem ok at 1700, but the carbs are way too high for OWL! I got 57g!! Yikes! I think Im going to have to take out the banana. That'll bring it down to 30g. I guess all fruits are not created equal either. Oh well, live and learn.
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, May-18-09, 21:26
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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You can sometimes shop around. The chicken farmer that I used to see a lot sold her eggs for an incredible $4.50 a dozen. Other folks at the farmer's market were more like $3.50, and some of their eggs were superb. The food coop has them for $2.75 a dozen sometimes.

I recommend you try them once. That won't set you back all that much, and then you'll know if you've been missing something that's worth the extra money.

I wonder, how much do I spend on eggs? 6 months worth of grains for our chickens costs about $50. We also feed them kitchen scraps which would otherwise get thrown away, and that allows me to feed them less grain. A batch of new chickens and any new equipment we might need for the year might be around $50 as well. So maybe $150 per year, although I seem to spend less on them every year. Assuming a conservative average of 1 egg every 2 days per chicken, for 5 chickens, let's see... that's 76 dozen eggs a year, at a cost of $1.97 per dozen. Not as cheap as you might think, but totally worth it as far as I'm concerned.
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  #49   ^
Old Tue, May-19-09, 06:46
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
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Wow youre lucky to have your own chickens! This way you get what you give! Our nearest food coop didnt get good reviews, challenging the quality of the products and the work conditions for the workers. Other coops are a bit far and parking would be horrendous. I'll work with what I have for now and look around for better eggs. May have to shell out more money! Actually, one time about 2 years ago, we stayed at a bed and breakfast in PA and they had chickens. We got our own eggs for breakfast and the owners gave us a dozen to take home. I do remember those super yellow-orange yolks and they had a heavier, stickier consistency. They were much better eggs.

I see you have a different diet. I looked them up and realized that there must be all different sorts of diets and food beliefs out there. Hope this works out for you.

I definitely ate too much food yesterday. I ate everything on my list (and a bag of pork rinds) and gained a pound! But I think it might just be the weight of all the food still in my body and not actually gaining a pound of fat. Back to the drawing board.
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  #50   ^
Old Tue, May-19-09, 09:21
dutchboy dutchboy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: high protein
Stats: 172/159/154 Male 178 cm
BF:18%/13%/10%
Progress: 72%
Location: Netherlands
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Capmikee,

I don't know why this is so little know. But if you want to learn for yourself, search for 'mitochondrial biogenesis' on pubmed. In one article I read : "Among several direct neuro-inhibitory actions, polyunsaturated fatty acids increased after KD (ketogenic diet) induce the expression of neuronal uncoupling proteins (UCPs), a collective up-regulation of numerous energy metabolism genes, and mitochondrial biogenesis."

From other articles I understand that there are more ways to increase mitochondria. Exercise helps.

I have never read this info on any site other than pubmed. This has convinced me to do my own research when it comes to my health.
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  #51   ^
Old Tue, May-19-09, 10:47
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickieb
Our nearest food coop didnt get good reviews, challenging the quality of the products and the work conditions for the workers.

I'm all for improving worker conditions, but did these reviews compare the coop to other local stores or to other coops? I get caught in that way of thinking a lot. If the coop isn't perfect but it's still better than the alternative, maybe it's not such a bad choice.

Quote:
I see you have a different diet. I looked them up and realized that there must be all different sorts of diets and food beliefs out there. Hope this works out for you.

Thanks. I started with Atkins, and what I do could still be considered Atkins, though I eat fewer vegetables than Atkins recommends. I have some additional restrictions based on avoiding foods that I'm sensitive to and maximizing nutrient intake. It's actually more like Paleo now - come see the Paleo forum sometime!

Quote:
I definitely ate too much food yesterday. I ate everything on my list (and a bag of pork rinds) and gained a pound!

Maybe it was too much food, or maybe it was the wrong food, or maybe it was something else - a hormonal or environmental factor. I've had days where I eat almost 3500 calories and don't gain an ounce. And I've had days where I eat less than 2000 calories and I do gain. Most day-to-day weight fluctuations are due to water. Water is much heavier than food!
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  #52   ^
Old Wed, May-20-09, 06:40
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
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Ok, 1/2 lb came off. It had to be the weight of the food, or perhaps anything else you mentioned! But I did have a big poop this morning!

I have the Queens Farm nearby and they have chickens etc. I will see if they collect these eggs for sale. They usually sell veggies etc. I'll give them a call later.

As for the condition of the workers, Im not as worried as that, as I am of the quality of the foods. I want quality, if Im paying for quality. People work where they will work and we all have problems at work! Im not as cold as I sound in this!

After today, I wont have anymore avocados left, so will substitute that with a 1/2 of a grapefruit. That seemed to work when I first started Atkins. I need to either think of a way to bring my tuna and mayo (kept cold) or maybe switch over to the salad and chicken breast. I travel in the car alot and dont have a fridge to store stuff, so Im afraid the mayo may do something bad in the warmer weather. Maybe I can use those frozen paks? Will that keep the tuna safe for a few hours in the hot car?

Hey, do you get support from friends and family with your foods/diets? I get mixed feedback. But mostly they think Im a bit obsessed! Same with exercise.
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  #53   ^
Old Wed, May-20-09, 11:39
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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I've never had a problem with tuna salad going bad between making it in the morning at eating it at lunchtime, even without a fridge. Two or three hours in the car is probably fine especially if you're also in the car and the air is on. 8 hours would be a bit long, though.

In general, I think food is usually safe if:

1. It's good food in the first place
2. It doesn't look, smell, or taste rotten
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  #54   ^
Old Wed, May-20-09, 14:58
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
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I've heard that mayo, which is what I have in my tuna, will turn rancid rather quickly in the heat. I park the car and thats when the problem will start. Today, I didnt have the tuna, but when I got back to my car, it was very hot in there. I dont think that mayo would make it for even a few hours. I may experiment with the ice packs though. But for now, I am a bit tired of tuna anyway, so will try the chicken with salad.

I do the same thing, sniff and look. Ive cooked food and without ever touching it with hands, has lasted about a week. I know the bacteria will cause it to go bad faster, so I always make sure I use a clean spoon to ladle some out. No cross contamination. And of course, being the in the fridge helps!

Oh good news, well not perfect, but goog enough. I called the farm and they sell eggs! They advertise them as free range, but I know those chickens are all over that place, that they must eat some bugs! I hope they wont cost much more than the regular eggs. Well I'll get some soon and see what they are like inside.

It was hotter than usual, so I got a little weak feeling today. I drank my usual 64 plus oz of water, managed to walk (a little slower) for 40 min. I dont know if I will do my other cardio, but will do the resistance work. What kind of exercise do you do?
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  #55   ^
Old Wed, May-20-09, 23:47
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

The only certification better than the word of a farmer is a visit to the farm. Lots of small farmers can't afford organic certification anyway. Sounds like you'll be getting top-notch eggs.
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  #56   ^
Old Wed, Jun-10-09, 14:53
J-lo carb J-lo carb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 268
 
Plan: my plan
Stats: 162.5/148/145 Female 5' 8"
BF:
Progress: 83%
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It's the carbs that damage the fat and make it stick in your arteries. Think of it that way and you'll get over the whole low-fat dogma. Other things like pollution, food additives, smoking, etc. damage the fat too and make them stick in your arteries. So what do you do? Hell if I know, and I wish there was more detailed research on the type and amount of carbs that are acceptable when it comes to the damage it creates.

I can't go too low or high with the carbs, or my body retaliates when I do either. I'm working on finding a healthy balance. If anyone thinks they've found it and have the medical results to prove it, I'm sure everyone would be interested in hearing about it. Until then, I'm gonna stick with the theory that too much fat OR carb intake should be avoided. I eat the protein and whatever fat is in that, along with the veggies.

If you work out, there's no evidence to support eating carbs period, unless it's 45 min. to an hr. after lifting, and then you still need the protein with it. Once you are fat adapted, there's no reason you can't run as many miles as your body can handle. You don't need extra fat or carbs unless you don't have enough body fat to fuel your workouts. You have your own built in fat supplier, it's called your ass. Use it.
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  #57   ^
Old Mon, Jun-22-09, 18:42
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
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I'm capmikee's wife and really struggling with the whole running/low carb thing. For me, the problem is not being able to run the distance, it's the performance issue. Running on low carb has always meant two things for me: low speed (and I'm slow enough as it is) and injuries. Whenever I have trained seriously, my times always drop like crazy if I eat carbs (unfortunately, I also gain weight).

I have seen the mitochondria issue mentioned in running books. Basically, I think it is the reasoning behind carbloading diets for marathoning. Nowadays, people carbload pretty much all the time, but orginally carb loading meant eat low carb while in training for two purposes - to fat-adapt by increasing mitochondria and to induce the muscles to go hyperactive on glycogen-loading when carbs are finally introduced just before a performance test (i.e. a race). All marathoners are well-served by becoming more fat adapted, because at some point the glycogen runs out in everyone.

I am at a crossroads, about to start marathon training. Wishing I could lose weight. Capmikee race a five mile race with me recently and was slower than I expected (still awesome since he's not really a runner)!- that was not a great confidence booster for low carb running.
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  #58   ^
Old Mon, Jun-22-09, 22:48
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,523
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/191/195 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Default

I think I got this slightly wrong. I think the extra mitochondria is supposed to help the ratio of fat/glycogen burned. More means you get to burn more fat earlier on, thus sparing depletion until much closer to the end and sparing the glycogen reserves.
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  #59   ^
Old Thu, Jul-02-09, 11:10
DTris DTris is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 271
 
Plan: Based on Barry Groves
Stats: 275/252/210 Male 6 feet
BF:
Progress: 35%
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ATP-adenosine triphosphate- is the ultimate and only energy source used by the body. The body has three energy pathways for creating ATP. Around 100g of ATP and 120g of creatine are stored in the body. These are used in the ATP-Pcr energy chain which is the first one used regardless of intensity when you exercise. This is the most powerful of the three systems and can sustain all out exercise for 3-15 seconds. This period is when you have the greatest potential for maximum power.

The second energy system is the Glycolytic energy system. This system uses glucose for energy and there is two types. Fast glycolysis produces lactic acid as a byproduct. Slow glycolysis produces pyruvic acid which is used in the Krebs cycle. After 10 sec fast glycolysis starts (and there is a drop in maximal power output) taking more and more of the energy production and by 30 sec of sustained activity it is almost the exclusive energy provider. At around 45 seconds the Oxidative system starts taking over. Which corresponds with a second decline in maximal power output.

The oxidative system consists of 4 cycles.

Slow glycolysis is the same as fast glycolysis except its slower and produces pyruvic acid. The body changes pyruvic acid into acetly coenzyme A. Acetyl coenzyma A is then funneled through the Krebs cycle.

The Krebs Cycle is a series of complex reactions that procuses hydrogen. Hydrogen is also produced by the glycolytic reactions. This hydrogen is then used in the electron transport chain.

The electron transport chain is also very complicated and uses oxygen to make lots of ATP.

Beta oxidation is used to break down fat into free fatty acids, acetyl coenzyme A and glycerol which can all be used by the Krebs Cycle and the Electron Transport chain as well.

Fat produces more ATP than glucose during the Krebs cycle and the Electron transport chain but it also requires more oxygen.

Protein is metabolized by converting the amino acids to acetyl coenzyme A or glucose.

After 90 seconds the majority of energy will be supplied by the Oxidative system. The slow glycolysis can make up a significant proportion of that even in very long activities.

Training can increase the output of all three energy systems. The ATP-Pcr system and Glycolytic system can only be increased by about 10-20%. The Oxidative system is much more trainable but I don't have a number.

V02 max can be increased by as much as 50% but genetics play a very large factor.

ATP and creatine can be replinished quickly by the body. When lifting weights, especially doing power lifting this is the primary energy system used. This is why the rest between sets is important to build more ATP and creatine.

With distance running 10% of the activity is fueled by ATP-Pcr system, 20% from the Glycolytic system and 70% from the oxidative system. Carb intake can affect which system is used and how much is provided by slow glycolysis vs the others.

Carb loading can only extend the fast glycolysis phase by a few seconds. Carb loading will also not effect the ATP-Pcr phase.

Most athletes who switch to a low carb diet experience performance difficulties for about a month, afterwhich they perform equally with carb eaters.

So no, your muscles do not need carbs. The carbs used in fast glycolysis will be replenished by synthesis from dietary protein in the liver. Krebs cycle and etectron transport chain would simply be more utilized by a low carb eater than in a high carb eater.
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  #60   ^
Old Thu, Jul-02-09, 11:41
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
I fail to see why anyone in their right mind would ever run 20 miles, carb-loaded or not.

Mountain Lions. Other than that....???

As for eggs, there is nothing like having your own little egg factories running around the back yard. I live in a suburban neighborhood and I have a small flock of ducks. They are less noisy than my neighbor's dogs so I have had no complaints from anyone. In the city nearby, you can have up to 10 chickens as long as you do not have a rooster.

If you aren't willing to make that plunge, check the FARM & GARDEN section of craigslist. Often people will sell farm fresh eggs.
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