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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-09, 21:36
wheels's Avatar
wheels wheels is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 215/206/140 Male 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Default Do your muscles need carbs?

Do you need carbs to grow your muscles? What kind of fuel does your muscles use grow?
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-09, 00:28
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Default

no. protein.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, May-09-09, 20:30
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Default

Muscle is made up of protein (and other things like water), but you need protein to build more mass. Animal protein is the best (not full of fat though) and whey isolate powder will help too. Sometimes I cant eat all that protein in meat, so I supplement with the powder. You need enough protein and weight bearing exercises, especially on low carb diets, to ensure that you dont lose muscle mass.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-12-09, 07:30
bkalm's Avatar
bkalm bkalm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 161
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 215/171.6/130 Female 5'5"
BF:42%/35%/20%
Progress: 51%
Location: East Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfunTH
no. protein.



LOL! Ditto!

Protein builds and repairs muscles, tendons and joints. You can totally survive on zero carbs and be healthy and thrive. Most people don't do it out of fear tho. Some days I eat 0 carbs and other days I'm around 11-15 it just depends. You do need to make sure you get adequate calories too along with getting suffiecient protein and healthy fats.

It's one of those myths that never die that one needs carbs to "fuel" muscles. I say we let it die and live in truth!
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, May-12-09, 11:59
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

I want a better explanation, though. They say that your muscles operate (not grow) off of stored glycogen. They say that when the glycogen runs out (e.g. when a marathoner "bonks"), they need to be refueled with carbs.

Now this is confusing to me, because Taubes says your body only burns carbs for a short time after you eat, then you go back to lipolysis right away and your whole body is burning lipids. So if this is true, why can't your muscles burn lipids for energy?
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, May-12-09, 17:32
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Default

Capmikee: Heres a website that might help you find your answer:

http://rjr10036.typepad.com/askdrve...hon_preper.html
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 06:38
AlienBug's Avatar
AlienBug AlienBug is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 241
 
Plan: PP-ish
Stats: 202/149/147 Male 5'8
BF:~10%
Progress: 96%
Location: Connecticut
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickieb
Capmikee: Heres a website that might help you find your answer:

http://rjr10036.typepad.com/askdrve...hon_preper.html


Notice how in that thread, everyone was discussing the topic thoughtfully until the hysterical, carb-loaded marathoner got all prissy and confrontational.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 09:26
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

But were there any other marathoners? Why not? I want to know if you can run for more than 20 miles without eating carbs.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 09:49
bkalm's Avatar
bkalm bkalm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 161
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 215/171.6/130 Female 5'5"
BF:42%/35%/20%
Progress: 51%
Location: East Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
But were there any other marathoners? Why not? I want to know if you can run for more than 20 miles without eating carbs.


The muscles use saturated fat for energy. If you are a runner, why don't you test drive the theory and take on 20 miles without carbs? It would be interesting. I believe one could run 20 miles without eating carbs as long as you fuel up on sat fat and protein. In absence of carbs the body will use fat either stored or ingested for energy. I don't see why running would be any different.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 10:19
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

If my wife ever gets me to do a marathon, I might try it. So far I've never run more than 7 or 8 miles.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 11:13
mickieb's Avatar
mickieb mickieb is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 139/128.2/115 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Default

Try it on the 7 miles. But remember to fill up on the fats and proteins before hand. Not just the night before, but work up to it over a few days. With the carbs, the body uses up the initial amount pretty quickly and then has to go to the reserve, but again it will get depleted in a marathon run. Then the body will attack the fat! And as long as you have the dietary fat in there to use and body fat (so you cant be stick thin!). I know I have walked miles and miles on fats and protein and I was fine. I dont run though. If you try it, let us know what happens!
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 12:18
ValerieL's Avatar
ValerieL ValerieL is offline
Bouncy!
Posts: 9,388
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 297/173.3/150 Female 5'7" (top weight 340)
BF:41%/31%/??%
Progress: 84%
Location: Burlington, ON
Default

I'm guessing the distinction lies in whether you are fat-adapted or not.

In a person who is not getting any carbs (or a ketogenic level), the body adapts, up-regulates the fat metabolism and learns to produce enough glucose on its own for the needed brain function and the body learns to use other fuel (fat in whatever form) where it can. This person might be out of glycogen, but the body can produce fuel fast enough to support lower intensity long term exercise, like a marathon.

In a person eating carbs, the body is going to use glycogen & glucose for fuel and won't be ready to convert fat to fuel efficiently enough to pick up the slack when the carbs run out. Hence, the bonk in a marathon if you don't keep providing carbs to the body.

My understanding is that it's the shorter distances (100 meter dash) where the energy requirements are so quick and so intense that the conversion of fat to fuel is too slow to work, even in those fat adapted. Without the very fast acting glycogen and glucose, you can't keep up. It wouldn't be that you couldn't do a 100 meter dash, but you'd quickly run out of steam and wouldn't be able to match to lightening fast intesity of the carb fueled sprinter.

But you have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Of course a fit, strong, completely fat adapted low-carber can still lift weights, but would he be able to lift faster & more weight if he was the same person and carb-adapted?

At least that's how I understand it.
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 15:20
AlienBug's Avatar
AlienBug AlienBug is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 241
 
Plan: PP-ish
Stats: 202/149/147 Male 5'8
BF:~10%
Progress: 96%
Location: Connecticut
Default

I fail to see why anyone in their right mind would ever run 20 miles, carb-loaded or not.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 16:00
bkalm's Avatar
bkalm bkalm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 161
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 215/171.6/130 Female 5'5"
BF:42%/35%/20%
Progress: 51%
Location: East Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickieb
Try it on the 7 miles. But remember to fill up on the fats and proteins before hand. Not just the night before, but work up to it over a few days. With the carbs, the body uses up the initial amount pretty quickly and then has to go to the reserve, but again it will get depleted in a marathon run. Then the body will attack the fat! And as long as you have the dietary fat in there to use and body fat (so you cant be stick thin!). I know I have walked miles and miles on fats and protein and I was fine. I dont run though. If you try it, let us know what happens!

Yup... this is so true! Loading up on Coconut oil would be excellent you can eat it by the spoonful and it taste good too! You could probably put it in a bottle and take swigs as you go! I work out very vigorously and only go on fat and protein too.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 17:45
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Not only did I run the 7 miles on low-carb, I did it on IF! I had been fasting for about 15 hours when I did the run and I didn't eat for a couple hours afterwards. It was no problem at all. But I've heard from other runners that there is a qualitative difference between running under 20 and over 20.
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