Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 12:10
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default High Sodium Levels Don't Raise Blood Pressure

http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=620501

High Sodium Levels Don't Raise Blood Pressure
Study did find connection between salt intake and diabetes incidence

FRIDAY, Oct. 24 (HealthDay News) -- Elevated sodium levels in the blood aren't related to the future risk of high blood pressure, say U.S. researchers who looked at almost 2,200 people.

At the start of the four-year study, the participants' blood pressure levels were defined as optimal, normal or high-normal. None of them had high blood pressure. Sodium levels increased with age, and those with higher sodium levels had a higher rate of diabetes and higher creatine levels, which suggests decreased kidney function.

However, study leader Dr. Rodrigo M. Lago and colleagues found no association between blood sodium levels and blood pressure, and no link between sodium and gender or body weight.

During the study, blood pressure increased by at least one stage (for example, from normal to high-normal) in 37 percent of the participants, including 15 percent who developed high blood pressure. But the risk of increasing blood pressure was unrelated to blood sodium levels. In fact, the study found that those with the highest sodium levels had a lower risk of developing high blood pressure.

The findings, which were published in the November issue of the Journal of Hypertension, suggest that many different factors contribute to differences in blood pressure between individuals, the study authors said.

But they added that people still need to watch the amount of salt in their diet.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 14:06
steve41 steve41 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 212
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 196/176/160 Male 5-9
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: BC Canada
Default

Didn't Gary Taubes poo-poo the 'salt is evil' myth, along with myths that 'fibre is good' and 'exercize helps lose weight'?

The universe is unfolding as it should.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 14:20
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve41
Didn't Gary Taubes poo-poo the 'salt is evil' myth, along with myths that 'fibre is good' and 'exercize helps lose weight'.
Taubes on Salt 1998
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 17:11
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Quote:
the study found that those with the highest sodium levels had a lower risk of developing high blood pressure....

But they added that people still need to watch the amount of salt in their diet.
Imbeciles!
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 17:49
BoBoGuy's Avatar
BoBoGuy BoBoGuy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,178
 
Plan: Low Carb - High Nutrition
Stats: 213/175/175 Male 72 Inches
BF: Belly Fat? Yes!
Progress: 100%
Location: California
Default

Studies cited by salt's defenders are often small in size or cherry-picked and are overwhelmed by data pointing to the damaging effects of salt, says Dr. Lawrence Appel, professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore. From a public health standpoint, salt is like tobacco and saturated fat, Appel adds. Not every smoker is going to develop lung cancer; not everyone with a doughnut habit is going to have a heart attack. But these vices cause problems in enough people -- and we'll never be able to predict who -- that it's worth advising everyone to avoid them, he says.

"To try to find the people who are sensitive to the adverse effects of smoking and say they're the ones who shouldn't smoke is crazy," Appel says. The same, he adds, goes for salt.

There's really remarkable consensus that sodium raises blood pressure but we’re all part of a whole population that lives differently, has some variety in their genes and has different behaviors. Is there a single level of salt that everyone should be eating? It's a little bit crazy.

Last edited by BoBoGuy : Sat, Oct-25-08 at 18:12.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 19:11
Kisal's Avatar
Kisal Kisal is offline
Never Give Up!
Posts: 14,482
 
Plan: It's anybody's guess!
Stats: 350/250/160 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: Oregon
Default

Well, I know for a fact that my bp runs about 10 points higher unless I abstain from sunflower seeds and salted nuts for 3 days prior to visiting my doctor. I also know that if I eat a lot of salty food (a whole bag of pork rinds at one sitting, for instance), my ankles swell from retained fluid.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 19:52
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

2,200 people is a pretty respectable size.
Quote:
Studies cited by salt's defenders are often small in size or cherry-picked

Pot. Kettle. Black.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 20:13
BoBoGuy's Avatar
BoBoGuy BoBoGuy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,178
 
Plan: Low Carb - High Nutrition
Stats: 213/175/175 Male 72 Inches
BF: Belly Fat? Yes!
Progress: 100%
Location: California
Default

Nancy’s article above is talking about blood - serum sodium levels and not dietary sodium. They can be two very different things. Two people with the same dietary sodium consumption can have two very different serum sodium levels.

There is a well-known link between high levels of sodium in the diet and the risk of high blood pressure. More recent studies have suggested that higher levels of serum sodium on routine blood tests might be linked to increased blood pressure.

Dr. Lago and his colleagues emphasize that their results do not negate the "critical role" of salt in the diet. Watching salt in the diet is still important even though the new results show no significant link between serum sodium level and blood pressure.

Bo
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 20:52
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

GCBC, pages 146

He mentions that salt binges will result in a slight increase in blood pressure from the swelling caused by water retention. However it is temporary and the kidneys will excrete the excess salt.

Now, I don't doubt there are some people with special conditions that should limit salt but I think someone healthy doesn't really need to be too concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 21:07
BoBoGuy's Avatar
BoBoGuy BoBoGuy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,178
 
Plan: Low Carb - High Nutrition
Stats: 213/175/175 Male 72 Inches
BF: Belly Fat? Yes!
Progress: 100%
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisal
Well, I know for a fact that my bp runs about 10 points higher unless I abstain from sunflower seeds and salted nuts for 3 days prior to visiting my doctor. I also know that if I eat a lot of salty food (a whole bag of pork rinds at one sitting, for instance), my ankles swell from retained fluid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
GCBC, pages 146.
He mentions that salt binges will result in a slight increase in blood pressure from the swelling caused by water retention. However it is temporary and the kidneys will excrete the excess salt.

I agree that it may be temporary but it’s still high blood pressure and that's not a good thing!!

Bo
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 21:49
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson


I love this quote from the paper by Taubes:
Quote:
On the one side are those experts--primarily physicians turned epidemiologists, and administrators such as Roccella and Claude Lenfant, head of NHLBI--who insist that the evidence that salt raises blood pressure is effectively irrefutable. They have an obligation, they say, to push for universal salt reduction, because people are dying and will continue to die if they wait for further research to bring scientific certainty.


What do you mean "wait for further research to bring scientific certainty"?!? Didn't you just say "the evidence that salt raises blood pressure is effectively irrefutable"?!?

Make up your mind my good man.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Sun, Oct-26-08, 01:58
RCo's Avatar
RCo RCo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 589
 
Plan: Bernstein (Guided)
Stats: 140/140/140 Female 5 feet 10 inches
BF:
Progress:
Location: UK/France/Spain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBoGuy
Not every smoker is going to develop lung cancer; not everyone with a doughnut habit is going to have a heart attack. But these vices cause problems in enough people -- and we'll never be able to predict who -- that it's worth advising everyone to avoid them, he says.


How does he know this?
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Sun, Oct-26-08, 08:39
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

There were some epidemiological studies recently where people having the lowest salt intake were dying more.... I'll have to find those again.

That was easy, seems there's been more than one study.

Cardiovascular Risk: Low Sodium Diets Might Be Worse Than High Salt Diets (2008, cohort 8,700)

Risk of death higher with low-salt diet, says study (1998, cohort of 11,000+)

Junkfood Science did a write up: http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com...es-healthy.html Parsing the NHANES III data, 99 million people involved in this one, lower salt intake again correlated to increased deaths, even amongst people with other unhealthy habits.

My own blood pressure tale is this:

Before I started LC'ing I was starting to get blood pressure in the range where my doctors began to mention it. About 2 weeks after starting LC, before any significant weight loss, it went down to normal (below 120/80) and has stayed there ever since. Eating salt doesn't budge it. Or at least not enough to take it out of normal range.

There seems to be a LOT of evidence, that almost everyone ignores, that carbohydrates raise blood pressure. Certainly high blood pressure is one of the many symptoms of metabolic syndrome, which seems to magically disappear on a low carb diet. Maybe the reason they raise blood pressure is the reason why we pee so much when we first go low carb. Carbs make you retain water like crazy. That probably pumps up the blood volume, a lot like salt does in some people. When you get rid of those excess stored carbs your blood volume goes down and your blood pressure gets lower.

So, singling out salt IMHO, is the typical stupidity of a carb addicted world.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sun, Oct-26-08 at 09:46.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Sun, Oct-26-08, 09:31
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Oh yeah, another thought. If salt raises your BP temporarily and it doesn't raise it out of bounds of what is considered normal, I don't see any harm. If it goes out of bounds by any significant measure then IMHO err on the side of caution.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sun, Oct-26-08 at 09:47.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Sun, Oct-26-08, 10:00
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Exercise also causes a temporary rise is blood pressure. Why doesn't the medical establishment recommend against exercise?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:55.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.