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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 08:16
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
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Default Should women who have paid for statins be given their money back?

Dr. Briffa writes:

Cholesterol-reducing drugs known as statins are hugely popular and highly profitable. It’s a shame, then, that they aren’t very effective. I say this because while they have been shown to reduce the risk of cardiovascular events such as heart attacks, they do not reduce the overall risk of death when essentially healthy individuals are being treated. This was the conclusion of an analysis of 8 studies which had been performed using individuals with no previous diagnosis of cardiovascular disease [1]. This analysis also revealed that for one individual to be protected from a cardiovascular event (heart attack or stroke) over a 5-year period, 67 people would need to be treated.

Other evidence analysing the effectiveness of the national treatment guidelines in the USA, Canada, the UK and New Zealand has revealed the so-called ‘number needed to treat’ (NNT) varies from 108-198 [2]. These startlingly high NNTs have caused some to question whether statins are really the wonder drugs some would have us believe them to be.

But wait, it gets worse. Because the limited ‘benefits’ of statins seems to be confined mainly to men. The research has found that even in women with diagnosed cardiovascular disease and/or history of heart attack or stroke, statins do not reduce overall risk of death. And in healthy women, they don’t reduce the risk of cardiovascular events (heart attacks and strokes) either. The crashing failure of statins in women was fully elucidated in an analysis from British GP Malcolm Kendrick in the BMJ last year [3].

The singular failure of statin drugs to help women was highlighted this week in the British Medical Journal [4]. In a news piece, our attention was brought to an analysis from a professor of law and a professor of clinical epidemiology in the USA. The paper focuses on the most widely prescribed statin of all - atorvastatin (Lipitor) [5]. It looks at the evidence for the effectiveness of this drug in treating essentially women with no history of cardiovascular disease. In line with previous evidence on statins, there was no significant benefit to be found.

But the authors of this analysis go further by questioning the fact that when Lipitor is promoted and advertised, there’s plenty of talk about the fact that it reduces the risk of heart attacks, but no mention of it’s stunning lack of success with regard in women. They accuse Lipitor’s manufacturers of a lack of candour here, and also ask questions of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in the USA. At a bare minimum, they say, the FDA should be using its muscle to protect people against misleading marketing. They also suggest that women who have paid out of their pockets as a result of false promises should be compensated for the money they’ve effectively wasted.

The authors conclude: Our findings indicate that each year reasonably healthy women spend billions of dollars on drugs in the hope of preventing heart attacks but that scientific evidence supporting their hope does not exist.

According to the BMJ new piece, Pfizer have responded to the article in the form of a statement, which I can’t locate on the web. In this statement, Pfizer claims that “Cardiovascular disease is a major cause of death in women as well as men and it ultimately kills as many women as men. However, onset of disease is delayed by some 10-15 years in women compared to men; thus the National Institutes for Health (NIH) ATP III guidelines define age as a risk factor in women at age 55, compared to age 45 for men. In addition, the AHA CVD Guidelines for Women were updated in 2007 and recommend that healthcare professionals should focus on women’s lifetime heart disease risk, not just short-term risk.”

Let this not distract us from the fact, I say, that statins have not been shown to benefit essentially healthy women. And let’s not forget either that for each person that benefits from taking statins, many, many others don’t.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 12:48
ValerieL's Avatar
ValerieL ValerieL is offline
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Plan: Atkins Maintenance
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Progress: 84%
Location: Burlington, ON
Default

I read about this somewhere else, too.

Interesting. I hope it gets the word out to women that statins aren't helpful for them.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 12:57
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I'm not sure it matters. It seems like people will take them no matter what evidence you show them they don't work. It makes them feel safer I suppose.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 13:05
ruthla ruthla is offline
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No, I don't think women should get refunds on drugs that were prescribed to them, that they took according to dr's orders. Most drs prescribed those drugs in good faith, honestly believing they were helping the women they prescribed for.

I do think that doctors should practice evidence-based medicine and stop prescribing statins to women (or to healthy men who've never had a heart attack.) Pharmacists should inform women, when they come to pick up statin prescriptions, of the medical evidence to help women make informed decisions (but under no circumstances should pharmacists decline to fill those prescriptions.) And women should educate themselves and stand up to their doctors, feel empowered to NOT take prescribed medicines if they disagree with their dr's decision to prescribe it.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 13:08
ValerieL's Avatar
ValerieL ValerieL is offline
Bouncy!
Posts: 9,388
 
Plan: Atkins Maintenance
Stats: 297/173.3/150 Female 5'7" (top weight 340)
BF:41%/31%/??%
Progress: 84%
Location: Burlington, ON
Default

I think that's the point though. The doctors were misled by the pharmaceutical companies into thinking the statins were helpful to women. Why shouldn't the pharmaceutical companies be held responsible for that?
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 14:38
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Angeline Angeline is offline
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I would be happy if this could convince my mother to stop taking statins.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 19:31
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Default

As I read from Eades' blog, there is no benefit to anybody except men aged 65 and over who've already suffered one heart attack. Further more, I read here in another post on the subject that one Dr. said "statins make women stupid". I posted in that thread with a joke on the subject:

Heard at the supermarket:

First woman "I'm on statins" she said with a wide clueless smile.

Second woman "I'm on AAAATKINNNZZZ A-T-K-I-N-S" she said trying to make sure the first woman understood because she was kinda slow.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 10:03
RobLL RobLL is offline
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Plan: generalized low carb
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Default

Its men under 65 who have had a heart attack, for whom a slight benefit from statins has been established.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 12:05
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLL
Its men under 65 who have had a heart attack, for whom a slight benefit from statins has been established.


I stand corrected. The point is anybody else, including women, shows no benefit whatsoever. In my opinion, peddling magic juice is fraud.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Oct-26-08, 02:49
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SusanKH SusanKH is offline
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My doctor prescribed them and I took them for about 3 months (Lipitor). I quit using them two weeks ago after reading how ineffective they are. Now I'm trying to find a doctor (that I can afford) who will prescibe bio-identical hormones and try to cure rather than just address the symptons. It's very difficult.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Oct-26-08, 08:56
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Default

SusanHK, have you checked out this guy's blog? I think he's amazing: Heart Scan Blog

He is getting positive results (verified by coronary calcium heart scans) from using supplements like niacin (don't get the no-flush kind, it doesn't work), vitamin D3, Fish Oil, and a few others.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-08, 06:52
renegadiab renegadiab is offline
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Plan: Schwarzbein/Bernstein
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Big Pharma should be held accountable for all the lies. My MIL took Lipitor and suffered from muscle pain. Even though she got off Lipitor years ago, she is now having pain again. Maybe it's not related, but maybe it is.

Problem is, we have been so propagandized to think that cholesterol is evil that it will take a major reversal in the medical-pharmaceutical establishment for all people to see the truth and that ain't gonna' happen any time soon. Cholesterol is big business.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-08, 07:44
triplemom's Avatar
triplemom triplemom is offline
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Plan: General Low Carb/IF
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Location: Tennessee
Default

I read something similar to this in Barry Groves' new book. I'm preparing myself for my next doctor's visit - he's been pushing the statins lately, but I've been fighting it. I just did a Google search and found all kinds of articles to bring in as my "ammo."

I wish there was more "accountability" for these drug companies. Maybe they wouldn't be quite so quick to fast track these drugs and push the doctors to prescribe them. Not to mention the big money advertising campaigns - think "Crestor" - not too long ago, you couldn't turn on the TV without seeing an ad for Crestor!
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-08, 09:22
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
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Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
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Default

Quote:
Even though she got off Lipitor years ago, she is now having pain again. Maybe it's not related, but maybe it is.


Check out this blog....he was a former NASA doc and he is suffering from all kinds of problems due to his stint on statins...

http://www.spacedoc.net/
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Oct-27-08, 13:05
Brandimop Brandimop is offline
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Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 172/172/140 Female 5' 6.5"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triplemom
I read something similar to this in Barry Groves' new book. I'm preparing myself for my next doctor's visit - he's been pushing the statins lately, but I've been fighting it. I just did a Google search and found all kinds of articles to bring in as my "ammo."

I wish there was more "accountability" for these drug companies. Maybe they wouldn't be quite so quick to fast track these drugs and push the doctors to prescribe them. Not to mention the big money advertising campaigns - think "Crestor" - not too long ago, you couldn't turn on the TV without seeing an ad for Crestor!


Triplemom: DON'T TAKE THOSE DRUGS without getting a thorough cholestrol test. I had this discussion with my Dr. earlier this year, too. My cholesterol was about 230, and he was concerned. I still wouldn't take statins. He then reminded me that the real culprit in cholesterol is the small particle LDL, not the overall number. He ordered a fasting metabolic screen, and we agreed that if my small particles were high, I would consider treatment. I took the test two days later. Well, he called me saying my small particle LDLs were zero (anything under 600 is considered very good). He contacted the lab to confirm their results and consuted with other physicians who told him that low-carbers, who don't cheat, usually come in with very low numbers. BTW, triglycerides were low too. Check out the cholesterol threads.
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