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  #46   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 10:49
Bru88's Avatar
Bru88 Bru88 is offline
Rock'in Arizona!!!
Posts: 4,343
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 470/400/300 Male 6'7"
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Arizona
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carlh_uk We have given you places to look at the info, if you can't afford to buy the book, go to the library and read it, don't waste your money. Better yet, try the program for your self. Because an author of an article writes;

"Last but most importantly, TO PUT ON WEIGHT YOU MUST CONSUME MORE CALORIES THAN YOU EXPEND! YOU WILL NOT PUT ON WEIGHT IF YOU DON'T."

Does that means he knows what he's talking about? What makes his advice different from our advice? Please get more informed about the subject of calories in calories out, which is disproved by the low carb diet. That is why we can consume many more calories than on a low fat/ low calorie diet and still lose weight. You are arguing with people that have put muscle on while in ketosis, and lost weight at the same time. I understand you are stuck on your own view of muscle building with a calorie surplus. Please check out the latest research and quit relying on information that has been paid for by companies promoting their high carb, cheap to produce, money making, poisons . You have been lied to, the doctors have been lied to, everyone you have learned from has been lied to. Do some research on your own, its out there. The calorie in, calorie out theory was disproved many times. If you can't afford the books go get a library card. The reports are out there, with your computer you should be able to find and read a bunch. I would recommend starting with; Gary Tuabes, Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health. It gives a great history of the lie, how it came about, and explains a lot about what you are trying to discuss. Hope you find this helpful...Bru
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  #47   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 11:09
carlh_uk's Avatar
carlh_uk carlh_uk is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 244
 
Plan: Carb cycling
Stats: 225/164/155 Male 5'8
BF:~15%
Progress: 87%
Location: England, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru88
carlh_uk We have given you places to look at the info, if you can't afford to buy the book, go to the library and read it, don't waste your money. Better yet, try the program for your self. Because an author of an article writes;

"Last but most importantly, TO PUT ON WEIGHT YOU MUST CONSUME MORE CALORIES THAN YOU EXPEND! YOU WILL NOT PUT ON WEIGHT IF YOU DON'T."

Does that means he knows what he's talking about? What makes his advice different from our advice? Please get more informed about the subject of calories in calories out, which is disproved by the low carb diet. That is why we can consume many more calories than on a low fat/ low calorie diet and still lose weight. You are arguing with people that have put muscle on while in ketosis, and lost weight at the same time. I understand you are stuck on your own view of muscle building with a calorie surplus. Please check out the latest research and quit relying on information that has been paid for by companies promoting their high carb, cheap to produce, money making, poisons . You have been lied to, the doctors have been lied to, everyone you have learned from has been lied to. Do some research on your own, its out there. The calorie in, calorie out theory was disproved many times. If you can't afford the books go get a library card. The reports are out there, with your computer you should be able to find and read a bunch. I would recommend starting with; Gary Tuabes, Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health. It gives a great history of the lie, how it came about, and explains a lot about what you are trying to discuss. Hope you find this helpful...Bru


You keep telling me to do research... did you even look at the article, or the authors info?

"Does that means he knows what he's talking about?"

His credentials and research mean he knows what hes talking about.

Why dont you show me some of the research you have found, since you assume im the only one who hasnt done any. You think a link to a book on amazon is a reliable source? The book was published in 2002... latest research eh?
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  #48   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 18:28
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,328
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh_uk
" Last but most importantly, TO PUT ON WEIGHT YOU MUST CONSUME MORE CALORIES THAN YOU EXPEND! YOU WILL NOT PUT ON WEIGHT IF YOU DON'T."


What's a calorie, how is it measured and does the body use those calories in the same fashion that they're measured? The answers are: a) A calorie is a measure of heat. b) The amount of calories measured in food, for example, is done so in a bomb caloriemeter i.e. the food is set afire. c) No, the body doesn't use food in the same fashion as a bomb caloriemeter.

The concept of the calorie is fundamentally useless in physiology except perhaps to tell us that if we set our food afire, we'll get this much heat.

Just a quick question. Would you consider 1 kg of fatty meat per day excessive calories? If not, what would you consider is excessive calories if it comes only from fatty meat? I don't go to the gym, I don't exercise, I don't exert myself in any way, I'm essentially a lazy guy who sits around all day. So, I don't burn any excess calories. Either way, how can I continue to grow lean, i.e. lose fat, even though I eat a lot of fatty meat (and only fatty meat) and probably an excess of calories?

Last edited by M Levac : Fri, Oct-24-08 at 18:34.
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  #49   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 18:49
Bru88's Avatar
Bru88 Bru88 is offline
Rock'in Arizona!!!
Posts: 4,343
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 470/400/300 Male 6'7"
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Arizona
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carlh_uk you forgot to include the whole statement the author made "YOU CANNOT PUT ON MUSCLE AND LOSE FAT AT THE SAME TIME UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES!" That sure reads a little different than you posted. I always find it suspect when taking information from a site that is trying to sell product. Its their business to take your money...ie; write something that is going to make you buy their stuff.

Please explain to me what the author meant by " NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES!" ?
Does that mean you can add muscle and lose weight on a low carb diet with plenty of fat and protein in it, but with no calorie surplus? To me it sounds like an out to his statement. Oh your on a ketogenic diet thats not normal! The books I've read and studied explain where the data came from. They don't make broad statements like you did, and then leave themselves an out, like your great author did. One day you will learn, stay around educated people something might rub off....Bru
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  #50   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 19:47
y0u's Avatar
y0u y0u is offline
Just Dirty!
Posts: 11,393
 
Plan: It's a secret..shhh
Stats: 240/240/175 Female 5'7
BF:Beef Flavored?
Progress: 0%
Location: In the 5th Dimension!
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Wow..so all that aerobic exercise and squats I have been doing have been for nothing? My legs sure look a lot more muscular and I have created a calorie deficit. Oh well..

<---pointing to the ignore feature in a rather Vanna White like manner. You all did know you can put people on ignore right?
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  #51   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 21:25
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,096
 
Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y0u
Wow..so all that aerobic exercise and squats I have been doing have been for nothing?

Guess it's a figment of your, ahem, muscular imagination.

Quote:
<---pointing to the ignore feature in a rather Vanna White like manner. You all did know you can put people on ignore right?


No kidding? Puh-lease tell me exactly how to do it. I see the arrow in your message, but I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be looking or exactly which button to press. This is really valuable information to know - thank you!

Lisa
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  #52   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 22:46
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,096
 
Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru88
an author of an article writes;

"Last but most importantly, TO PUT ON WEIGHT YOU MUST CONSUME MORE CALORIES THAN YOU EXPEND! YOU WILL NOT PUT ON WEIGHT IF YOU DON'T."

Idiotic, isn't it. Because the opposite side of that coin will be that you MUST put on weight if you consume more calories than you expend. And we all know that isn't true. Eat high fat and low carb, and the mechanism that drives fat accumulation -- insulin -- is unable to function, regardless of calorie count.

Martin posted this link to an experiment done last year to prove it:

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/ftopic813-0-asc-0.php

Jeff's BMR was 2200. For 30 days he ate between 2000 - 3000 MORE calories than that, in the form of high fat/low carb. Poor guy had to resort to drinking quarts of heavy cream a day just to do it. And little to no exercise.

A solid month. I think he ate something like 72,000 SURPLUS calories by the time he was done. Upshot? He lost a pound.

Ah, yes . . . the so-called 'experts' know it all, don't they.

Lisa
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  #53   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 22:53
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,096
 
Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru88
Come on over Lisa, it would be fun. You would probably like my weight room. Hack squat/leg press machine, now the Vectra, plus power block dumb bells (5-90 pounds adjustable) a few benches, plus about 600 pounds of free weights, a Precor elliptical, and bike, of course computer and TV.

Bru, I'm jealous. And if I'm ever out your way, I will definitely take you up on your offer! I live in an ancient Victorian house. Even if I found (and could afford) that equipment - there's no way to get it to a room up the narrow stairs. I'd have to store it in the kitchen.

But you know what - if you like it, maybe you can become a SuperSlow coach and have folks come and train in your super-duper weight room! That would help pay for the equipment....

Lisa
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  #54   ^
Old Fri, Oct-24-08, 23:33
y0u's Avatar
y0u y0u is offline
Just Dirty!
Posts: 11,393
 
Plan: It's a secret..shhh
Stats: 240/240/175 Female 5'7
BF:Beef Flavored?
Progress: 0%
Location: In the 5th Dimension!
Default

Awriter, click on the name of the person you want to ignore at the top of their post(you will get a scroll option) go to view public profile, and you will find an option to the right to "add to your ignore list" It's really a wonderful feature. You will not be able to see any of that persons posts. It's like they never existed.
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  #55   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 08:50
Bru88's Avatar
Bru88 Bru88 is offline
Rock'in Arizona!!!
Posts: 4,343
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 470/400/300 Male 6'7"
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Arizona
Default

Lisa that would be a good way to help people and teach at the same time. I'd probably have to go get certified and take some nutrition (like I would believe what they teach) courses. That might be fun, I don't know if I could handle listening to some instructor teaching me about nutrition....I know I would have to open my mouth listening to such BS. I'm very lucky when it came to the house, we have a full basement (very very rare in Arizona)with a huge outside entrance . The whole house is done in 1X12 knotty pine it is about 60 years old so has that orange glow to it, very relaxing. Its funny to watch people visit, they get s relaxed it great. We'll attack the weight room today at 1030, so should be done in a couple hours. Going to start on Monday, find my weights and work on my form. I'll keep you informed...Bru
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  #56   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 09:38
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,096
 
Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y0u
click on the name of the person you want to ignore at the top of their post (you will get a scroll option) go to view public profile, and you will find an option to the right to "add to your ignore list" It's really a wonderful feature. You will not be able to see any of that persons posts. It's like they never existed.

y0u - how wonderfully cool is that! Done, and now - REALLY done!

Thanks,

Lisa
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  #57   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 09:44
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,096
 
Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru88
that would be a good way to help people and teach at the same time. I'd probably have to go get certified and take some nutrition (like I would believe what they teach) courses. That might be fun, I don't know if I could handle listening to some instructor teaching me about nutrition....I know I would have to open my mouth listening to such BS. I'm very lucky when it came to the house, we have a full basement (very very rare in Arizona)with a huge outside entrance.

Bru, the house is perfectly designed to take on clients, isn't it? Lucky you. And I'm not sure, if you called yourself a 'coach' and took on a few people, that you would have to take courses in anything - as long as you let everyone know that was the case.

One of the things I envy most is that you'll be able to Slow Burn the right way: moving quickly from exercise to exercise. At the Y, it's not so easy, because I often have to wait for a machine to open up, or move on to something else lower in my list. That's why it takes me about 30 minutes to get in and out, when it shouldn't take more than 20 minutes, tops. You'd be able to offer that same advantage to others. Heck, if I lived there I'd be happy to pay you to coach me.

Have a great weekend!

Lisa
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  #58   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 10:52
mattie o's Avatar
mattie o mattie o is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 681
 
Plan: low carb, carb cycling
Stats: 160/121/125 Female 65.5 inches
BF:under 10
Progress: 111%
Location: Longview, WA
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cool, i might dig the ignore feature.

im with y0u--all those hours in the gym, learning about lifting and the subsequent working my balls off, all those miles i power walked on the treadmill...all for naught? hmm.

where did i get this semi kickin bod then? dont get me wrong--its not perfect, but id like to think im pretty toned...i too have a calorie deficit, and i remain in ketosis.
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  #59   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 16:45
Bru88's Avatar
Bru88 Bru88 is offline
Rock'in Arizona!!!
Posts: 4,343
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 470/400/300 Male 6'7"
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Arizona
Default

Well the weight room is almost finished. Sure glad I had two young strong backed kids to carry it down the stairs and help me get it set up. Hardest part was straightening out the cables. Got it on the second try. Live and learn. Very, very smooth machine. Need to wipe it down, and tension two balls and I'm finished. Kept my free weight Para-Body machine, fit into the corner perfectly. So if my granddaughter wants to workout at the same time she can. Monday will be a figure out my starting weights and getting some timing down. Need to set-up a book shelf and a computer stand, next to the big screen TV. Have to look into some gym flooring also. I probably finish it up tomorrow and Monday. Will stop at Lowes and pick up a couple mirrors. Can't wait to work out now....Bru
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  #60   ^
Old Sat, Oct-25-08, 21:34
y0u's Avatar
y0u y0u is offline
Just Dirty!
Posts: 11,393
 
Plan: It's a secret..shhh
Stats: 240/240/175 Female 5'7
BF:Beef Flavored?
Progress: 0%
Location: In the 5th Dimension!
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Bru, I'm coming over to work out with you Monday, what time works for you?
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