I'm crazy about what Atkins accomplished for the world and I think his plan works well for many people.

However I think the products are a real bummer. I don't mean that none of them taste decent -- although I have literally felt major sugar/carb cravings come on me IN THE MIDDLE OF eating one of his bars when I was perfectly fine before and just sampling the flavor, so I consider them a bit deadly -- I mean that none of them are real food.

I like convenience and I'm not against lowcarb bars and puddings and drinks and stuff, once in a great while I have them too. But the hype to push all this stuff changes the lowcarb eating plan from a mostly whole-foods healthy diet into one where you just trade high-carb and/or low-fat crap for low-carb crap instead, and what do you know, it's all still crap.

If people aren't forced to learn to deal with real food I don't think they're going to stay on lowcarb or get much healthier. Atkins bars -- and again, nothing against him, his lovely wife, or his life endeavors -- are junkfood, plain and simple. The fact that you can squeeze a sufficient number of chemicals into something to make it qualify as portable minus-AS-minus-glycerin-equals-sorta-lowcarb does not qualify it as "food".

I realize this was Atkins' own push near the end of his life, but I still feel like the whole marketing hawking of lowcarb as a junk food product rather than a healthy lifestyle does a real disservice, to Atkins and to us all.

PJ

I like Grove's books because they are straightforward, vastly more readable than any other diet or nutrition books I have ever read, unemotional (Atkins books sound like they were aimed at children in comparison) and really top notch about giving you information on how LC works. In fact, though I have some issues with some of his stances on medical things about which he knows nothing at all beyond what any other layperson knows, I recommend his most recent book to anyone looking to do low carb who wants to understand the diet but doesn't want to wade through GCBC. My observation is he is better versed in nutrition than any of the "popular" diet book authors.

He also addresses issues we see here on this forum a lot such as the 2 weeks of Atkins induction followed by several weeks of no losses. He doesn't promise the moon and the stars overnight rather much better health over time.

I'm in the UK and have the Mail article in paper form.

It says to eat low carb bread but gives no clue where to buy it. None of the various shops I patronise have ever heard of it.

Helena

Most the LC bread you can buy is revolting anyway, at least here. (Not all, but most, and none are very affordable.) If you don't have any gluten issues, you can make lowcarb bread yourself in a bread machine. You can buy lowcarb flour mixes (like a version of bisquick, such as CarbQuik) to make all kinds of things with.

There's also a variety of lowcarb gluten-free alternatives. They should not be mistaken for anything truly resembling bread, mind you, but as their own foods they can be really good -- almond and coconut and flax muffins and cookies, wraps, etc.

Wait, who is this barry guy? Is he a diet "guru" too? Well, that explains why hes dissing the "american" version, since that banting guy 150 years ago did it too. (how much claret was he supposed to have knocked back every day? im sure that should be part of ANY healthy diet.-sarcasm )

Why isnt this called the BARRY diet, and not ATKINS? Because Dr A put his neck out there what, 40 years ago, and never backed down. And all YOU can do, barry, is complain that someone else is getting money...from publishing the entirety of the diet plan and the science behind it in a newspaper.....for free..(oh wait) ...and youre not? In the comments section?

Man, that was nasty. Dont go dissin my man Atkins.

One thing I will say about atkins nutritionals is that they dont hesitate to educate on the plan and the whys and hows. its been out there too long to keep it under wraps. All they have left are the products. I guess its hard to blame them, they are a business, and hey, they do understand the nature of most folks is to look for a quick fix and buy the "legal" product. Hard to blame them for taking a sucker for their money! Serious people will read the article, and understand that the 2 carbs from two hard boiled eggs (chopped up with some mayo) makes a terribly satisfying breakfast all by itself with out some punk-arse breakfast bar.

BTW, thanks for sharing all these UK articles, I would never have access to this kind of entertainment otherwise.

Helena,

Here's a link to a source of low-carb bread in the UK.. I haven't tried it, but someone on this forum did, and said it was great

http://www.lowcarbmegastore.com/

I haven't read Barry Groves' book, though it is on my reading list. However, I too very much dislike the implication that Dr. Atkins diet is simply a replication of someone else's eating plan. Apart from the fact that it's an extremely well thought-out and flexible diet, DANDR is chock-full of information - food lists, recipes, stall-breaking suggestions, lists of supplements to address different medical problems associated with obesity - with his enthusiastic and encouraging personality imbuing every page. I didn't find that patronising - it seemed to me to be very sincere. I'm a keen fan of well-written children's books, so I guess that is why I find DANDR a thrilling page-turner.

Atkins made no secret of the fact that he did not invent the low-carb diet. He merely tweaked it by designing the phases and the carb ladder which allows people to individualize it to their needs better than a blanket plan. I think I need to read the Groves book to see his arguments for myself.

I agree with Groves that the focus on LC processed foods is regrettable and runs counter to the spirit of this WOE. I have some Atkins bars in my house, but they sit in the cabinet. They are a food of last resort, not something I turn to frequently. They are good for when I go hiking and need to take something with me on the off chance that I get stuck somewhere--at least that way I will eat something quasi-legal instead of a granola bar.

--Melissa

In the age of Obama, can't we all just get along?

YOU nailed it 100%

Atkins didn't invent low carb nor did he claim to. And don't diss Barry. Barry is my hero

There's no need to spend wodges of cash on petrol to drive miles to some store to get "low-carb bread", really, if you ask me. And then find out they've run out and you made the trip for nothing!

If you can lose on Groves' recommendations (50-60g of carbs/day), you can easily allow yourself one or two slices of bread a day. I live in Germany where the bread is somewhat denser, but, according to the German nutritional tables I have, each slice would still be only about 15g of carbs. So, if you ate no other carbs, you could still eat four slices of normal bread a day, and still be within the limit.

I would just buy normal bread and, if you have a freezer, just freeze it and take out a couple of slices a day; if you really want to have bread, and you don't have problems with grains in general, or gluten issues, then it's no problem to eat a little bit. The "low-carb" bread will probably be even more processed than ordinary store-bought bread.

amanda

Hmmm... I have given this a second thought now. I do have a problem with wheat. If there was bread in the freezer I would compulsively eat more than I should, and would polish off ten slices toasted before I came to my senses.

"I live in Germany".
Hey! I recently spent four hours stuck in a broken down train in Germany!
Here's a little bit of film I made in the train in Berlin ...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DP8ZymtYFp0

Helena

ABSOLUTELY!!! My sentiments entirely!!!

Just a quick question: I assume you are referring to "Trick and Treat: Why 'healthy eating' is making us ill" as his most recent book? If anybody is interested more in the scientific background of a low-carb diet, then the book he wrote before that, "Natural Health and Weight Loss" might be more interesting, but, really, both of them are excellent!

My problem with Atkins is the induction part. When you read comments in the "New members" part of this forum, you see that a lot of people do feel ill during that time. One recommedation by Mr Groves (and Wolfgang Lutz of "Life Without Bread" fame does the same) is that it is better to ease yourself into a low-carb WOE gently, i.e. work your way down to 50-60g of carbs a day, because if you suddenly go from a high-carb diet to 20g a day (that is what Atkins recommends on induction, right?) then, he argues, this "puts a lot of strain on the endocrine system". Sometimes I have the feeling that the "induction flu" that some people go through puts them off so much that they simply give up. It always makes me want to cry, because I always wonder that, if they had taken it a bit more gently, then they might have stuck with it.

That said, if you discount the induction bit, there's no big difference between what Groves says, and what Atkins says. Groves just puts it better.

amanda

My daughter said the same thing recently about bread. She said, "Mum, it's better if I just don't eat bread at all, because, if I start, I can't stop." Some people seem to be very susceptible to these "opioid peptides" that are in grains; they seem to be very addictive for some people. If that is true for you, I would just steer clear of all bread, whether it's called "low-carb" or not. If you eat fifty slices of it, then you will be way out of your carb range!!!

Sorry to hear of your negative experiences in Germany. Although, part of me thinks you must have actually been in Austria or the Netherlands: here in Tschermany ze trains are alvays on time!

amanda

Barry Groves discovered low-carbing in 1962. Atkins' first book came out in 1972, right? Groves and his wife were both overweight themselves and came across a doctor in the UK, Dr Richard MacKarness, at this point. I quote from NHAWL, p. 128.

"During the 1950s, another British physician, Dr. Richard MacKarness, found that the low-carb, high-fat diet was so successful with his overweight patients that he wrote a book that was in print for nearly 20 years - a feat almost unheard of in the slimming book industry. It was Dr MacKarness who introduced me to this concept in 1962 and so dramatically changed the lives of my family and me. In more than 40 years since, none of my family has been overweight, although we were before that date. In 1972 Dr Robert Atkins published Dr Atkins' Diet Revolution."

I rest my case. Dr MacKarness was the first to rediscover the low-carb diet, not Atkins, not Groves.

And, may he rest in peace, Atkins certainly did not put this diet stuff in a British newspaper for free, unless he ordered it to be done from on high on his sugar-free cloud in heaven. I do believe the fellow passed away a while back...

amanda