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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 07:25
bike2work bike2work is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,536
 
Plan: Fung-inspired fasting
Stats: 336/000/160 Female 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 191%
Location: Seattle metro area
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I have two sisters who are two years older than me. Both eat very low fat. I've been off and on LC (mostly on) for nine years. I saw my sisters this summer and I just kept thinking about how terrible their skin looks. I tried not to stare, but I couldn't help it. My skin is fine. Maybe it's the two years difference, but I doubt it.
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 07:34
Tanizaki Tanizaki is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: PSMF
Stats: 251/173/165 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bike2work
I have two sisters who are two years older than me. Both eat very low fat. I've been off and on LC (mostly on) for nine years. I saw my sisters this summer and I just kept thinking about how terrible their skin looks. I tried not to stare, but I couldn't help it. My skin is fine. Maybe it's the two years difference, but I doubt it.

1. Anecdotal evidence
2. Confirmation bias
3. Hasty Induction fallacy
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 07:37
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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Tanizaki, since this is a forum and not a peer reviewed medical site, of course you are going to get anecdotal evidence. What is your point?
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 07:39
pennink's Avatar
pennink pennink is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,781
 
Plan: Atkins (veteran)
Stats: 321/206.2/160 Female 5'4"
BF:new scale :(
Progress: 71%
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
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mmm, so what if it's anecdotal? you do realize, of course, that all studies start with this?

As a former medical editor, I don't give much weight to half of the clinical studies out there, and have spoken to clinicians around the world who admit that anecdotal evidence is often as reliable.

Tell me then, how can someone 12 years older look younger than I did those 12 years ago? I've been sicker in between those years, less active, more stressed, and yet I can hold up the pictures and see it myself. Only thing that's changed is low carb.

You can believe what you want, but I guarantee you it's the fats.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 08:00
Tanizaki Tanizaki is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: PSMF
Stats: 251/173/165 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wifezilla
Tanizaki, since this is a forum and not a peer reviewed medical site, of course you are going to get anecdotal evidence. What is your point?

That anecdotal evidence proves nothing. Like I said, it's great for forming a hypothesis, but you can't go about saying, "I am a LCer with great skin, and I know non-LCers with bad skin, so LC must give great skin".
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 08:01
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
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The word "anecdotal" only seems to enter the conversation
when the anecdotes are not going the right way. "Being fat
ages most people" is anecdotal. Unless you know of studies
which are not based on subjective and cultural perceptions.

But it is true that without a stated mechanism, proof is hard
to establish without exhaustive and rigidly controlled testing.
Once a mechanism is discovered though, original causes can
often be deduced. Quite often it becomes intuitively obvious.

However I don't believe that cosmetic age due to one diet or
another can be evaluated in either of those methods. That is
so dependent on subjective input that only the dieter is able
to make the judgment. They must perceive the improvement.
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 08:03
Tanizaki Tanizaki is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: PSMF
Stats: 251/173/165 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennink
mmm, so what if it's anecdotal? you do realize, of course, that all studies start with this?

Yes, I do. That's probably why I said, "anecdotal evidence can be used to form a hypothesis".

Quote:
As a former medical editor, I don't give much weight to half of the clinical studies out there, and have spoken to clinicians around the world who admit that anecdotal evidence is often as reliable.

Wow, thank you for anecdotal evidence to support the proposition that anecdotal evidence is worthy. The irony is delicious.

Quote:
Tell me then, how can someone 12 years older look younger than I did those 12 years ago? I've been sicker in between those years, less active, more stressed, and yet I can hold up the pictures and see it myself. Only thing that's changed is low carb.

To your knowledge, the only significant thing that has changed is the LC factor of your diet.

Quote:
You can believe what you want, but I guarantee you it's the fats.

You can guarantee nothing of the sort.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 08:05
pennink's Avatar
pennink pennink is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,781
 
Plan: Atkins (veteran)
Stats: 321/206.2/160 Female 5'4"
BF:new scale :(
Progress: 71%
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
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Sure, you're smarter than my nephrologist, cardiologist and GP.

LMAO.

bye
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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 08:07
Tanizaki Tanizaki is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: PSMF
Stats: 251/173/165 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennink
Sure, you're smarter than my nephrologist, cardiologist and GP.

LMAO.

bye

I win again, fans!
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 08:16
Baerdric's Avatar
Baerdric Baerdric is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 2,229
 
Plan: Neocarnivore
Stats: 375/345/250 Male 74 inches
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanizaki
I win again, fans!
So you admit you are more interested in who is right than you are in what is right?
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 09:29
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanizaki
That anecdotal evidence proves nothing. Like I said, it's great for forming a hypothesis, but you can't go about saying, "I am a LCer with great skin, and I know non-LCers with bad skin, so LC must give great skin".

You have 16 posts to your credit, I think I've read about 4 so far. They've all been rather snide, snarky, insulting, arrogant and so on. Do you actually have anything to contribute or are you just here to test our patience? This is a message forum. Sometimes people just shoot the breeze here. This isn't a peer reviewed medical journal.

Relax!

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sun, Apr-20-08 at 09:55.
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 10:58
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
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I did previously link to a specific study with information on carbohydrates and their effect on collagen. It happens to give valuable medical insight to the anecdotes. Where you ignoring it on purpose?
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Apr-20-08, 18:02
~centa*of*'s Avatar
~centa*of* ~centa*of* is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 143
 
Plan: Seven Deadly Sins (Paleo)
Stats: 155/110/110 Female 166cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Australia
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Since eating Paleo, I believe I look younger, as I look healthier (because I am). I didn't do it to lose weight, so I don't think it's the weight loss that caused me to look younger - I didn't really have a lot to lose when I really got into Paleo WOE.
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  #29   ^
Old Mon, Apr-21-08, 03:42
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36,355
 
Plan: KetoCarnivore
Stats: 206.6/178/160 Female 5'7
BF:awesome
Progress: 61%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennink
It's low carb. I don't know the science behind it, but it seems to keep the elastin in your skin.
fat keeps our body, our skin, our organs supple.
fat keeps the movement going in the intestines... hence you don't need fiber as BTaubes has stated in GCBC.

there are all kinds of reasons to eat fat, and anti aging is definitely one of them.
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  #30   ^
Old Mon, Apr-21-08, 07:13
respira's Avatar
respira respira is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 197
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 165/140/120 Female 5'2
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanizaki
How do you know it was Atkins and not simply losing the weight? Being fat ages most people.


Because losing weight does not account for the healthy glow I now have that people always comment on and my hair went from pitiful looking to gorgeous.
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