Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 13:15
serrelind serrelind is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,649
 
Plan: paleoish
Stats: 130/104/105 Female 5'1"
BF:-
Progress: 104%
Location: Florida
Default

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Gary Taubes said for many people, not everyone, exercise works up an appetite, and you eat more to compensate for the extra calories burnt through exercise.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #47   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 13:38
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

I can attest that digging ditches all day long, if you are fit enough for it will keep you trim and very HUNGRY.

His point is well taken that most voluntary training or structured exercise plans are just counterproductive when applied only for weight control on a normal American diet. Building muscle does burn a few more calories, but I think the sum effect is overrated.
Reply With Quote
  #48   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 14:44
Locarb4mee's Avatar
Locarb4mee Locarb4mee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 390
 
Plan: Zero Carb
Stats: 200/189/150 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress: 22%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serrelind
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Gary Taubes said for many people, not everyone, exercise works up an appetite, and you eat more to compensate for the extra calories burnt through exercise.


I agree, it absolutely does work up an appetite, no doubt. I ate everything in sight when I had that job and the weight still fell off me. Many times I've *almost* wished I had to work that hard again every day. I felt marvelous. I also used to sleep like a baby but it was really almost too hard, if you know what I mean. I was useless at home after a 10 hr shift of that kind of physical labor. I didn't stay in that position long either.
Reply With Quote
  #49   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 14:47
K Walt K Walt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 606
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 210/170/170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: NJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locarb4mee
I agree, it absolutely does work up an appetite, no doubt. I ate everything in sight when I had that job and the weight still fell off me. Many times I've *almost* wished I had to work that hard again every day. I felt marvelous. I also used to sleep like a baby but it was really almost too hard, if you know what I mean. I was useless at home after a 10 hr shift of that kind of physical labor. I didn't stay in that position long either.



I can't help noticing that the people who actually do hard physical labor, carpenters, masons, construction workers, and the like aren't especially lean. They are fit, and strong as hell. But they aren't any leaner than the rest of us.
Reply With Quote
  #50   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 15:01
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locarb4mee
I agree, it absolutely does work up an appetite, no doubt. I ate everything in sight when I had that job and the weight still fell off me. Many times I've *almost* wished I had to work that hard again every day. I felt marvelous. I also used to sleep like a baby but it was really almost too hard, if you know what I mean. I was useless at home after a 10 hr shift of that kind of physical labor. I didn't stay in that position long either.



I have a similar story that happened to my ex-brother in law. He used to deliver pizzas for a living. One of the perks of the job was that he could eat on site for free, including lots of, you guessed it, pizzas. Also he would take pizza home fairly frequently.

Well when I saw him one Christmas, the fat has melted away from him. He used to have a huge gut and now he was slim. When I asked what happened he told me he had a new job, operating a forklift. He and my sister attributed his weight loss to a more physical job, although delivering pizzas wasn't exactly a desk job. I think it would be fairer to attribute the weight loss to loss of free (carby) meals

Last edited by Angeline : Mon, Oct-22-07 at 15:06.
Reply With Quote
  #51   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 15:17
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is offline
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 23,064
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/381/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 58%
Location: Ozarks USA
Default

As a teen I briefly worked at a donut shop. They had a great business model: they told the employees, 'eat everything you want. just only do it on breaks, and you have to ring it up as employee food so the computer knows where the food went.' So for the first week, new employees eat themselves sick, and then just smelling the donuts, they never want to look at one again. That worked really well until I made friends with the girl at the pizza parlor several doors down. Past that point, her pepperoni and my eclairs traded daily and I bet we both gained weight.

When a job involves lifting things, I think it should be seen as resistance training, not aerobic exercise. I used to run several shipping/receiving warehouses. I know what it's like to run around in a hardhat, drive forklifts, and lift more overheavy boxes by hand than anybody should be asked to. But in my view this often amounts to an entire day of doing squats, lunges, and a half-version of both. In other words, it's a really intense muscle building exercise, not just for the arms but literally the entire body (muscles "you didn't even know you had" LOL). You probably couldn't get a person to "work out" as hard as having a job like that requires. I would expect any person not used to doing that, who began doing so, to drop weight. The added muscle, combined with the intensity of it, would likely be a noticeable shift in body composition before very long.

(As a comparison, my sister taught spinning and aerobics nearly full time when managing a big Holiday Spa health club, and only eating like a rabbit with no taste buds was able to retain her figure. Which IMO, now that I know a lot more about bodybuilding, was never impressive. It failed to be fat, but never actually achieved anything muscle-wise. Now that I look back on her life of salads and dry toast, yogurt and wheat bran, and constant aerobics, I'm not surprised.)
Reply With Quote
  #52   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 15:32
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

Hey thanks for the more inside view of operating a forklift. I had a vision of operators just sitting on their machine and letting them do all the hard work. lol. Shows how much I know.

Still, cutting out the pizzas did not hurt his weight loss I bet.

Funny you should mention donuts, because I used to work in a donut shop too when I was young, and they had a similar policy of free food. Then a new manager started and changed the policy to employees pay half-price. It was greatly resented and I would "forget" more often than not to pay. Well it didn't take me a week to get sick of the donuts, but I never quite got over liking the fresh chocolate croissants still warm from the oven. yum. When I walked past the rack of cooling pastry, I'd snatch one up and eat it in a few bites. And croissants were baked every shift, so that happened frequently.

It will come as no suprise that I gained about 10 lbs in the 6 months I worked there.
Reply With Quote
  #53   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 16:38
LCivility LCivility is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 63
 
Plan: no sugar no starch
Stats: 210/170/160 Female short
BF:
Progress: 80%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Walt
I can't help noticing that the people who actually do hard physical labor, carpenters, masons, construction workers, and the like aren't especially lean. They are fit, and strong as hell. But they aren't any leaner than the rest of us.


Unless they eat right. My brother is a glazier and has only ever eaten meat since he was 20. One meal per day, one steak per meal. That's all. He is 52 and looks 30 except that he is almost bald. Bald maybe, but ripped.

I used to nag him about his "bad" diet. Meanwhile, he was never sick and could pose for any bodybuilding magazine he wanted to. Dang if he wasn't right and now I am the one eating my words.
Reply With Quote
  #54   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 17:33
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
Default

Finally Done!!!

Damn! My brain hurts!
Reply With Quote
  #55   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 18:20
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline
Hey thanks for the more inside view of operating a forklift. I had a vision of operators just sitting on their machine and letting them do all the hard work. lol. Shows how much I know.



Well, that is all some of them do.

My current job is the first sedentary one I've ever had. When I roofed houses for a year, I was lean and extremely fit. When I worked at a plastics plant, I did a lot of heavy lifting, but not constantly, unlike the roofing, and I put on a lot of fat.

I would dearly love to work out now... it seems to bother my eyes/kick in migraines, though.
Reply With Quote
  #56   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 18:50
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCivility
Unless they eat right. My brother is a glazier and has only ever eaten meat since he was 20. One meal per day, one steak per meal. That's all. He is 52 and looks 30 except that he is almost bald. Bald maybe, but ripped.
So he is doing LC and IF 23/1 that's the gold standard of dieting in my opinion. I am almost bald anyway, so maybe I should give it a go. I would do meat, eggs and fish though you need EFA's.
Reply With Quote
  #57   ^
Old Mon, Oct-22-07, 18:55
K Walt K Walt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 606
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 210/170/170
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: NJ
Default

Originally Posted by K Walt
I can't help noticing that the people who actually do hard physical labor, carpenters, masons, construction workers, and the like aren't especially lean. They are fit, and strong as hell. But they aren't any leaner than the rest of us.



Unless they eat right.


Precisely Gary Taubes's point. Exercise, in itself, doesn't do much for weight loss.
Reply With Quote
  #58   ^
Old Tue, Oct-23-07, 05:35
Wifezilla's Avatar
Wifezilla Wifezilla is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,367
 
Plan: I'm a Barry Girl
Stats: 250/208/190 Female 72
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: Colorado
Default

It sure never helped me...the gym, hiking, water aerobics, dance...I did it for 2 YEARS and never lost a pound. Now I walk once or twice a week and still do my dance class just because it helps with toning.
Reply With Quote
  #59   ^
Old Tue, Oct-23-07, 09:45
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Did anyone get to the part discussing WHY vitamin deficiencies come about only when eating carbohydrates? That was interesting!

Heavily edited because there's too much text!
Quote:
"Because it is still common to assume that a meat-rich, plant-poor diet will result in nutritional deficiencies, it's worth pausing to investigate this issue. The assumption dates to the early decades of the twentieth century, the golden era of research on vitamins and vitamin-deficiency diseases, as one disease after another--scurvy, pellagra, beriberi, rickets, anemia--was found to be caused by a lack of essential vitamins and minerals.
...
it dictated that the only way to ensure that all the essential elements for health was to eat as many types of foods as possible, and nutritionists still hold by this logic today. "A safe rule of thumb," as it was recently described, "is that the more components there are in a dietary, the greater the probability of balanced intake."

This philosophy, however was based almost exclusively on studies of deficiency diseases, all of which were induced by diets high in refined carbohydrates and low in meat, fish, eggs, and dairy products.
... Text about various sailors getting sick on foods consisting of stuff like gruel sweetened with sugar, puddings, biscuits, barley, rice (causing scurvey). Pellagra associated with corn-rich diet, beriberi eating white rice instead of brown. Pelagra was cured by adding in fresh meat, milk and eggs.

"Nutritionists working with lab animals also found that they could induce deficiency diseases by feeding diets rich in refined grains and sugar. Guinea pigs were given scurvy in a series of laboratory experiments in the 1940s when they were fed diets of mostly crushed barley and chickpeas.

This research informed the conventional wisdom of the era that fresh meat, milk and eggs were what the Scottish nutritionist Rober McCarrison called "protective foods" (which is how they were known before Ancel Keys and his contemporaries established them as the fat-rich agents of coronary disease), but it also bolstered the logic that a "balanced" diet, with copious vegetables, fruits, and grains, was necessary for health. "

So the actual problems were caused by diets rich in grains and sugar but it was deduced by the fat-head experts that it an high meat diet would do the same. Yet animal foods contain all of the essential amino acids and 12 of 13 essential vitamins in large quantities.

"The 13th vitamin, vitamin C, has long been the point of contention. It is contained in animal foods in such small quantities that nutritionists have considered it insufficient and the question is whether this quantity is indeed sufficient for good health. ... [text about the discovery that scurvey can be cured by fruits] As a matter of logic, though, this doesn't necessarily imply that the lack of vit. C is caused by the lack of fresh fruits and vegetables. ...

"If the Inuit thrived in the harshest of environments without eating carbohydrates and whatever nutrients exist in fruits and vegetables, they, by definition, were consuming a balanced, healthy diet. If they did so solely because they had become evolutionarily adapted to such a diet, which was a typical rejoineder to Stefansson's argument, then how can you explain those traders and explorers, who lived happily and healthfully for years at a time on this diet?
[more history about nutritionists beliefs, the Steffanson experiment where he lived in a hospital for a year, under observation eating nothing but meat, and was fine, no vitamin deficiencies]
The really interesting part
Perhaps these carbohydrates block the absorption of vitamins?

"B-vitamins are depleted from the body by the consumption of carbohydrates. "There is an increased need for these vitamins when more carbohydrate in the diet is consumed,".

A similar argument can be made for Vitamin C. Type 2 diabetics have rougly 30% lower levels of vitamin C, which suggests that vitamin-C deficency might be another disorder of civilization. One explanation for these observations--described in 1997...-- is that high blood sugar and/or high levels of insulin work to increase the body's requirements for vitamin C.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Tue, Oct-23-07 at 11:38.
Reply With Quote
  #60   ^
Old Tue, Oct-23-07, 09:59
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCivility
I used to nag him about his "bad" diet. Meanwhile, he was never sick and could pose for any bodybuilding magazine he wanted to. Dang if he wasn't right and now I am the one eating my words.


And he wouldn't have been making all those AGEs from eating carby foods, causing wrinkles, stiffening of the organs and so on!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 18:33.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.