Thank you. This is an interesting forum.

I am using 2 different oil combinations right now because I am trying to find the one I have the most confidence in. Although I disagree with Udo Erasmus on some of his positions on oils and especially the correct omega 3 to omega 6 ratio, his book 'Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill' is for the most part a good primer on fats and oils. In his book Udo points out that polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) are easily damaged by heat, chemicals and especially by exposure to light. The latter can make a PUFA oxidize up to 1000 times faster than oxygen.

Oils high in omega 3 tend to go rancid (oxidize) 5 times faster than oils high in omega 6. But oils with high amounts of omega 3 such as organic flax oil are extracted, packaged and offered for their EFA content. So it is quite easy to get a good source of biologically active parent omega 3. But it can be very difficult to get a good source of biologically active parent omega 6.

According the best source of information I have been able to find to date the correct ratio for an omega 3/6 supplement after allowing for biologically active parent omega 3/6 from foods is anywhere from 1:1 to 1:2.5 in favor of omega 6. To get the 1:2.5 ratio mix 1 part of flax oil to 1.5 parts of safflower oil if you can find a properly extracted source of safflower oil that you can have confidence in, one that is stored in an opaque container. Date the oil mix and store it in your fridge. The normal dose is about 1 teaspoon/day. I don't mix more than 500 ml at at time. I discard opened flax oil after 6 weeks max even if refrigerated. Opened safflower oil will keep much longer.

I had a very difficult time finding a good source of biologically active omega 6. Until recently I was unable to find a source that was packaged in an opaque (black or solid color) container. I started off trying Spectrum safflower oil only to find later that it is made from high oleic safflower oil (Spectrum doesn't state this on the label). This has only a fraction of the omega 6 of normal safflower oil. Worse, the bottle was also not opaque. So I did not get the results I expected.

The only normal safflower oil (75% omega 6) I could find that is cold-pressed, organic is by Flora. But it is still in a dark brown bottle (Maybe Flora doesn't read Udo's book). Not perfect, but I was starting to get significant, noticeable results. For example, I no longer sun burn easily whereas I previously did. But be warned the last time I checked Flora was ceasing production of safflower oil due to lack of demand.


I apologize for rambling on. The reason for this level of detail is to make the point that it is very easy to get oxidized omega 6 but very hard to find a biologically active source. And I have spent a lot of time looking for one.

Finally a breakthrough. I am currently using Omega Nutrition's organic flax oil. A few weeks ago I found a bottle of their organic pumpkin seed oil. Pumpkin seed oil has a bit better than a 1:2.5 ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 (15% to 42%). So it doesn't take a lot of flax oil to bring the ratio down to 1:2.5 or less. I am currently using about a 1:2 ratio blend.

EFAs are a complex subject. So it is easy to get confused and get off track. If you would like further information please let me know.

Good luck finding a source of biologically active omega 6.

Davidcoast, thank you for all that great information and taking the time to type it out. I see I'm going to need to devote some time to researching this area.
I've had some issues of BG going up unexplainably, and it might coincide with my purchase of a new bottle of EFA, this one all from fish oil, whereas my last couple bottles were some combo of fish, borage and flax, I'm thinking.
But will have to test that.
Thought I was doing good for myself by switching just to fish oil.
There's a cardiologist with a very good blog, Dr Davis, who speaks favorably of fish oil over any other types.

I have posted comments on this issue under another thread on 'omega fatty acids' on this same forum.

What many researchers and medical professionals seem to be either unaware of or are ignoring is that there are 2 essential fatty acids; omega 3 and omega 6. The reason they are called 'essential' is that they are essential for life. We need them both and they must be present in our bodies at the same time and in the correct ratio. It is not only absurd to take either omega 3 or omega 6 alone, it is also dangerous because you can imbalance them. It has been known for many years that this can and will cause serious problems. Yet people are still promoting this idea.

There is no question in my mind that the majority in our western society do not get enough omega 3. But at the same time there is also no doubt in my mind that we are not drowning in omega 6 as many claim. This idea has its roots in the fact the vegetable oils that are made from sources that high in omega 6 are abundant in our diet. However the omega 6 that is present in the vegetable oils we consume are for the most part oxidized or in some way adulterated. This not only makes omega 6 unusable, it also makes it toxic.

There is also the widely promoted theory that we need large amounts of the EPA and DHA which are derivitives of (parent) omega 3. EPA and DHA are also omega 3. But they amount to offspring of parent omega 3 because your body produces them 'as needed' from parent omega 3. In view of this, it makes no sense to bypass this regulated process by supplementing with DHA and EPA. But this is exactly what you do when you take fish oil.

The fish/borage/flax oil supplement you were taking is too high in omega 3 and its derivitives. Fish oil is worse. I'm not surprised your BG went up. I also had huge problems when I took fish oil. I will post some research later on this.

Although the following study done back in 1989 only used a small number of subjects the results were consistent. Yet, there are still those who are claiming that fish oil has no adverse effect on BG levels just as the majority are standing by their position that a high carb, low fat diet is the best for optimal health. Based on the physiologic requirement for omega 3 and omega 6 to be in balance in order to optimize cell membrane permeability, which regulates such things oxygen and insulin transfer into the cell, the concept of supplementing with either omega 3 or omega 6 alone and/or with fish oil with a high EPA DHA content alone would predictably result in deterioration of cell membrane permeability.

“Dose-Response Effects of Dietary Marine Oil on Carbohydrate and Lipid Metabolism in Normal Subjects and Patients With Hypertriglyceridemia,” (Metabolism, Vol. 38, No 10 (October), 1989, pages 946-956) states:

“The glycemic [blood sugar] control of [all of] the four insulin-dependent diabetic patients worsened during the fish oil administration.

“…[T]he insulin dose of the subjects had to be increased throughout the six-month period of fish oil administration to maintain constant blood glucose and glycosylated hemoglobin concentrations (HbA1c average blood sugar level).

“Despite the stable body weight by patients on the basal diet, glycosylated hemoglobin levels after six months of fish oil administration increased 16% from 4.9% to 5.7%.

“Another important finding of our investigation was that consumption of a fish oil-enriched diet worsens glycemic tolerance.”

I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised when after just 1 month of LC my BG is normal range -73-101.

In 2000 -I experienced chest pains and went to the ER-
they quickly told me I had diabetes. ( thats why the botttoms of my feet were burning!)
I also needed a stent and that went successfully.
For the next 2 yrs I was on meformin then added avandia - I was also on Weight Watchers and lost about 60 pounds. My BG was still around 200 most of time with spikes as high as 360.
I lost my job and health insurance and then stopped all meds and bg testing.
I went into a depression and gained all my weight back. (devil dogs were my fav)
In March thru July of this year I started having severe pains in my legs and feet and knew my diabetes had to be out of control.
I started Atkins and have now lost about 25-30 pounds. I bought a BG meter and in the parking lot of the store I tested my BG and low and behold it was 73- I quickly drove home and tested the meter- I thought for sure it was calibrated wrong - but it was right!
for the next 2 weeks my bg has been in the normal range. I hope it continues this way.
I also take multivitamin, aspirin, and cinnamin.
My feet are still painful but it is lessening -
I also used to take BP meds and now it is normal as well.
I was never more amazed of anything in my life.

good going, and keep it up.

Hi Donnybrook, welcome to the board!
Congratulations on your achievements.

Donnybrook...It's great that you have been able to get your BG's under control. Congrats on your weight loss so far. You're doing great!

BTW...love the retriever picture. I have one too and just love, love, love her! They are a wonderful breed!

Thanks for the encouragement all-
Gotta put one of my Goldens on a diet too- have 4 of em - 3 at a good weight and one is huge ( she eats their food too !)- maybe I can set a good example for her lol.
denise

I put my cat on low carb recently, he's enormous.

Gosh, this feel so right, I just need so deep encourgement, my last time on here was last Nov. I have been thorough the worst illness's of what most people will never face. Well to starts, Psorisis, that sent me to the hospital and IV steroids, and them spine bone spurs and psoridic arthi ridis in my pelvic and back bones, elbow. And then on top of this Valley Fever that has sucked the life out of me. I don't know if any of u know what it is.. But.. I had a chest xray for one reason and then WOW U have a large nodule on your right upper lung. No symptom til 2-3 months ago. I am on High blood pressure meds, oxycodone ER (extend release) twice a day. And as of this last Sunday I have a ear infection caused by the psorisis. Boy I bet if any of u were standing next to me u would take a few steps back. I am not contageous, hee.. Well I am on here because I am doing the low carb diet, I have lost 17 ish lbs since last December, I weighed in at 174 and I'm weighing 157. I just need some friends to lean on. I has been a rough last 9 months.

O and yes I'm a diabetic, for the last 35 yrs, I was 16 when they named me type 2. i think I was the first kids labeled with it 35yrs ago. And at that time I weighed 89 lbs, they think a virus caused this, so do I.

Hismouse, we're glad you're back. It's tough having to deal with so many things at once!

Hismouse...You sure have been through alot in the last months. I sure hope you're feeling better now. Congrats on the weight loss!

Hismouse,

I know you may not feel very strong right now, but the average person would have lost their mind. I admire the fact that you are battling all of these forms of illness and yet you have returned to the LC WOE - with success I might add - at a time when most people would have given up and eaten themselves in a coma.
I have been watching the Biggest Loser and the one thing I have learned from that show is that most of us are stronger than we think we are and we can endure more than we think we can.
I'm glad you are back and I hope that you find the support that you need right here. I truly believe this is where the Lord led me. The people in this forum are the best. I was discouraged when I came here. I felt like I was pulling a boulder up a mountain. They were patiend in answering my questions and very supportive. I am sure you will find the same thing to be true for you.